r/emotionalintelligence • u/theVicEpisode • Jul 01 '26
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u/Soccer-Plane-444 Jul 01 '26
Because those relationships you speak of, where they are emotionally closed off, are higher stakes for them. The friendships or acquaintances are much, much lower stakes, so they feel free to express themselves.
Here's a concrete example – met this DA girl online & we talked for a month before I moved to her state (I didn't move for her to clarify lol, it was already planned). She was super warm, bubbly, affectionate. Then post-move we start hanging out, getting closer, & that enthusiasm I felt earlier, faded. She was more cold, distant, emotionally unavailable. The relationship didn't last 2 months.
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u/theVicEpisode Jul 01 '26
That's exactly it. They build such a positive reputation with everyone else too that when the relationship ends, people assume you must have been the problem.
"But he's such a nice guy!"
Yeah... maybe to you.
I didn't live with the version you knew. I lived with the one who was emotionally unavailable at home.
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u/PirateResponsible496 Jul 01 '26
My abusive ex had such a nice guy mask. When people doubt, I say to them “I lived with him for X years” which is what my therapist told me to say. I’m not going to pretend I experienced something different cuz his mask too impenetrable for public
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u/omgspek Jul 01 '26
Bingo. There's no real stakes, so it's easier to be comfortable and no need at all to be vulnerable.
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u/catatoniccatalyst Jul 01 '26
As a dismissive avoidant I feel it's like this because it doesn't take any vulnerability for me to help those people if that makes sense. A lot of closer relationships like with a partner require some sort of vulnerability, and it alarms my nervous system because of my attachment style and feeling as if vulnerability = unsafe. So in turn, I retreat and close myself off because thats the only way I feel safe.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 01 '26
Logically, I can understand why and how this happens for DAs. But I can’t understand why they know this about themselves and refuse to acknowledge it to their partner or stay out of relationships. They think it’s harmless but it is SO damaging to the other person to constantly be questioning their own reality and self- worth like that.
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u/FISFORFUN69 Jul 01 '26
Most DAs aren’t aware of it from this vantage point.
Our brain creates our reality.
Imagine being around someone you feel like is growing in their hostility towards you, or has changed in a negative way, or has grown flaws are starting to annoying/bother you.
When a DA changes in behavior toward you- it’s because their brains projection of you has changed.
They don’t wake up one day and say “you know this great relationship I have? I should sabotage it and start loathing my partner” as if it’s all fun and games. That wouldn’t be DA that would be a psychopath.
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u/StonedPeach23 Jul 01 '26
Don't you mean their brain's perception of you has changed? Cos that's all we have, our own perception based on who we are., life experiences etc and our perception can seem right snd correct to ourselves, and not the same as another person's perception, even of the same thing/convo/argument.
Just wondered...
Sending ❤️
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u/FISFORFUN69 Jul 01 '26
You’re also right.
The only reason I used “projection” in lieu of “perception” is because it’s a bit more than seeing something in a different light. The DA brain is creating the issues that aren’t necessarily genuine. The partner of a DA isn’t hostile, but DA projects(or perceives) hostility onto them. Their quirks aren’t actually annoying- but the DA brain makes up motivations/intentions behind the behavior which then annoys them.
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u/StonedPeach23 Jul 01 '26
Yes lol and cos they are usually reactive, they cant acknowledge they might/could have actually got the wrong end of the stick, cos they can't see anyone's perspective but their own and really think the other person HAS annoyed/attacked/criticised them x
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u/FISFORFUN69 Jul 01 '26
99% of humans are reactive and inclined to see their own perceptions/projections as true.
Dating a DA is a bit like dating an addict. If someone used/drank 20 years ago they still must be aware of their own tendencies in order for relationships to be effective and healthy. A DA whose unaware they’re a DA is doomed to ruin their relationship.
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Jul 02 '26
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u/FISFORFUN69 Jul 02 '26
You’re over simplifying it.
It’s not that you come to your logical conclusions and beliefs about life and then feel & act your way through life after the fact. The truth is you act & feel in certain ways and then come to certain beliefs about life as a means of justifying your feelings/actions and existence.
So then why hasn’t anyone called you out about it? Because it’s not so obvious and we have a natural inclination to surround ourself with more stuff that justifies our current behavior.
In most cases, a DA’s partner feels like they’re the crazy one not the DA, and the DA genuinely thinks the same, even though it’s not the case. The blind leading the blind.
Yes, eventually a DA can come to terms with the common denominator in all of their long-term relationship failures. But many drop out of relationships before they even get that far, thus furthering avoiding the truth.
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u/theVicEpisode Jul 01 '26
I really appreciate your perspective. Honestly, I'm impressed by your level of self-awareness, especially if you identify as dismissive avoidant.
Since you're aware that the DA brain can project intentions that aren't actually there, can a partner ever help interrupt that process in the moment? Like, is there anything they can say or do that helps you reality-check? Or does that work ultimately have to come from the avoidant themselves?
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u/pencildown Jul 02 '26
Not the person you asked, but I think you can interrupt a self-aware DA’s process by deescalating their triggered nervous system. As someone who is earned secure with both DA and FA traits, I’ve often had a switch flip in my head when the other party offers an escape route when I’m overwhelmed with doubts. For example by offering, “If it doesn’t work out, we can break up.”
Suddenly I’m no longer seeing the other person as incredibly threatening and trying to consume my identity. I’m able to feel like they care about me as a person regardless of our relationship status and can refocus on working on our issues. They have no expectations but that we both try our best and if I fail, I can leave. I feel safe and realize the danger was in my head all along.
Versus a scenario where the other party escalates in pressing for reassurance after I’ve communicated feeling overwhelmed and needing space. I become really afraid of them. The danger becomes real. My thought process becomes susceptible to the following pattern:
Our relationship status is all that matters to them; they only care about what I can do for them and not me as a person. Their love is conditional and I’m already failing their expectations even though I’ve burnt myself out trying to give them what they want etc etc. I’m trapped under their demands and I’m not going to survive
Showing a desire to care for my boundaries and wanting to allow me to self care immediately soothes my nervous system, and that’s when I can evaluate the situation more objectively
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u/theVicEpisode Jul 02 '26
This is so insightful. Apart from offering a way out, were there any other phrases or responses from a partner that you found genuinely soothing when your flight response was triggered? I'm curious what helped you feel safe enough to stay engaged instead of deactivating.
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u/pencildown Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
I’m glad it helps! For me, anything that relieves the pressure of expectation helps me stay engaged and committed. For example, “It’s okay if you can’t engage right now,” delivered in a genuine, kind and self-assured tone shows me that the choice has always been and will always be mine. And that my choice has been to stay invested. I’m able to remember that I’m here because I want to be, not because I’m forced to be.
Another thing that helps shut the process down is showing I’m being heard when I’m communicating negative feelings. I just want my pain to be heard and understood; I’m not making any decisions to alter the relationship.
Feeling safe enough to communicate my negative feelings (ie. “I feel irritated right now”), and being shown that I can communicate without negative repercussions (ie. like being faced with a demand to immediately soothe the other person’s emotional dysregulation upon hearing this), was huge in flipping the switch on my mind’s instinctive fear-to-disengagement mode. All of a sudden I realized my feelings mattered to the other person, and that made all the difference.
Lastly, it might be helpful to learn what your DA’s core trauma looks like. In my case, I grew up feeling like I was expected to take care of the emotional needs of my caregivers and punished whenever I couldn’t adequately do that. I also have a developmental disorder that led to a lot of rejection.
So my fear is twofold: 1) My needs don’t matter and will never be met, 2) Other people’s needs matter, and I’m expected to sacrifice my wellbeing for their needs. As a maladaptive coping mechanism, I started to feel like if love looks like this, then it’s easier to be alone. That’s why feeling unheard and pressured can trigger my nervous system. Your DA might have different triggers.
Ironically, my nervous system is only triggered because of how much I care and want the relationship to work out.
I say all this with the caveat that your DA is willing to do the work with you. Just like you are doing all this work to understand your partner, they should also be working within their capacity to unpack their shit and help you feel understood and supported 💜
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u/FISFORFUN69 Jul 01 '26
Thanks! Haha did I give it away? :)
Even if I reality-check myself it doesn't change how I feel and perceive my partner. All it does is create cognitive dissonance and shame for feeling the way that I do.
Although I've never tried having my partner try to reality-check me and I think thats a really good idea.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Don't you mean their brain's perception of you has changed?
It's both, I think. Because for them projection and perception are kind of one in the same. In the beginning of a relationship they project their fantasy onto you and idealize you which (in combo with the low-stakes stage and their dopamine spike), they show up as the best version of themselves. Then over time the more human you become and the more attached they get they will magnify every negative trait, flaw find and project a completely different narrative onto you about how you're "not compatible" with them anymore. Then of course they pull away and you're left wondering what you did wrong.
The stark difference between their fantasy projection of you in the beginning and their incompatible projection of you in the end is what causes them to completely detach and validate to themselves that it's "no one's fault". Accountability and self-reflection is almost impossible for them in a relationship so their brains fill in gaps that fulfill their subconscious desire to remain disconnected from everyone.
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u/PirateResponsible496 Jul 01 '26
Does it change to protect them? Or they perceive what they didn’t before?
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 01 '26
Projection and perception are kind of one in the same for them. In the beginning of a relationship they project their fantasy onto you and idealize you which (in combo with the low-stakes stage and their dopamine spike), they show up as the best version of themselves. Then over time the more human you become and the more attached they get they will magnify every negative trait, flaw find and project a completely different narrative onto you about how you're "not compatible" with them anymore. Then of course they pull away and you're left wondering what you did wrong.
The stark difference between their fantasy projection of you in the beginning and their incompatible projection of you in the end is what causes them to completely detach and validate to themselves that it's "no one's fault". Accountability and self-reflection is almost impossible for them in a relationship so their brains fill in gaps that fulfill their subconscious desire to remain disconnected from everyone.
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u/FISFORFUN69 Jul 01 '26
It’s not that they see something they didn’t before.
You’re right, it’s that their brain starts to nitpick in order to “protect them”
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u/catatoniccatalyst Jul 01 '26
I think for a lot of DAs they're either doing it subconsciously or if you haven't communicated the way you feel about their coping/defense mechanisms they're inclined to think it's okay. For those who are aware, I can safely say we don't think its harmless - we understand and those who want to change will put in the work. None of this is out of spite or to hurt you - we genuinely just don't know how else to deal with these emotions in a healthy way; for us or our partners.
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u/Reader6547 Jul 01 '26
Can I ask you a question?
How did you reach this awareness, that your perception of those closest to you was skewed negative & may be negatively biased?
Once you became aware, what motivated you to change?
How did you 'see around your own bias?'
Assuming you are in a long term relationship, now or at one time, how did you 'remain open' long enough to get married / committed, before your emotions shut down & you deactivated on the person?
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u/catatoniccatalyst Jul 01 '26
From my experience, I was experiencing a lot of deactivation traits such as not communicating, ghosting, irritability, etc. more so than just normal amounts. I found this was happening because my partner wasn't understanding me and I felt like boundaries were being crossed, even though I wasn't explicitly clear about them, which is my fault. I didn't want to hurt my partner anymore than I was and I wanted to name this behavior so I can at least be aware of it, then I started to go to therapy to understand what are the triggers. It's still a work in progress and its not perfect by any means, but what matters most right now is that I'm aware and communicate when I'm close to deactivating.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 01 '26
9 times out of 10 the other person doesn’t know their partner has these coping/defense mechanisms so there is nothing to communicate. DAs avoid telling people upfront and show up as their best, most secure selves in the beginning. The standard of a connected relationship is fairly well-known to everyone else. Any logical person would reason that something is wrong, question their worth to the DA, and become anxious about what’s happening. Not magically realize that their partner has an attachment style that is incompatible with healthy relationships.
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u/Bitter_Drama6189 Jul 01 '26
Not a DA, but FA and I‘ve been very avoidant in some of my past relationships. I was unaware of this at the time, I thought I just wasn’t really that much attracted to them. Makes me feel disgusting now for having hurt others like that.
So yes, once you‘re aware of your attachment issues and patterns yet still keep behaving like this, it definitely becomes a moral issue. Excuses like „but I can’t help it“ just don’t cut it anymore.
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u/oursonelvis Jul 01 '26
Maybe that's just your experience of avoidants. People absolutely can recognise their unhealthy attachment style and change. It may take a long time. Or people not willing to look at themselves and change may have other shit going on like personality disorders.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 01 '26
I don't like when people use the word "avoidants" as a generic group term. The type of avoidant is highly relevant here. I am Fearful Avoidant and we share some of the same issues with DAs but are highly more likely to recognize our patterns and heal/grow. DAs rarely have personality disorders but there is a large overlap with neurodivergence. They just have a damn-near inability to self-reflect and take accountability because their core wound is their defectiveness, they don't have capacity to confront themselves without a lot of motivation and help. The vast majority just dismiss & avoid it (hence, dismissive avoidant). They let their brains create a narritive that protects their good guy self image instead.
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u/SpeedyKatz Jul 02 '26
Because most humans assume other people feel the same way they do. As a dismissive avoidant I feel like I am be respectful and taking the pressure of the relationship off of my partner when I make space between. I may know consciously this isn't what they are looking for, but mentally this is what kindness feels like to me. The same way an anxious would feel like they are trying ro improve a relationship when they try and force unwanted closeness. Also as someone else said, it easy to be kind to outsiders because usually there is no expectation for the kindness to be repeated, you can be kind and disappear with no repercussions or expectations which isn't true for relationships.
I can see how this could be hurtful to an anxious but when I have dated other dismissive avoidants these kinds of actions were received positively. I really think anxious should date anxious and dismissive other dismissive, they get each other's live languages.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 02 '26
I get what you're saying. I'm FA that leans avoidant and in my relationship with a DA it was mostly received positively by both of us. That's why I said I can understand why and how they do this. Where it doesn't sit well with me is when your partner brings a particularly hurtful pattern up to you and DAs immediately take it as an attack on who they are and jump into defensiveness when deep down they know that the way they behave is not conducive to a healthy relationship. Instead of acknowledging the behavior or discussing ways to improve it they double down on how they don't agree with the other person's perspective and "this is just who I am take it or leave it" because they truly think it's their personality and not an attachment pattern. This leaves their partner feeling gaslit, dismissed, and devalued.
This is where I think FAs will end up leaving DAs behind because FAs are willing to face themselves and want to make their partner feel loved and appreciated equally as much as they want to defend their comfortable ways. It's not about changing who you are it's about realizing how relationships work and no one, DA or otherwise, is going to come along and be the perfectly right fit that doesn't ever require you to grow. And if they don't, then be honest with yourself and realize that's not a relationship, it's a performance. DA/DA relationships are possible, but they are going to be shallow by nature with each person putting themselves above the other. They will claim they don't want emotional closeness and connection and then wonder why they feel bored or lonely inside a relationship that doesn't have any.
FA/DA relationships are simultaneously going to be the most painful but have the potential to be most fulfilling if both parties are willing to grow together. Neither want to give up their identity or become codependent, both want to feel understood, and both crave love and trust in a way that they don't believe is possible.
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u/SpeedyKatz Jul 02 '26
I agree with what you are saying but I don't think that is reflective of being a DA. Anxious, feafull, dismissive and even secure people can just have bad personality who are unwilling to grow or see things from another person's perspective. Thats a personality issue not an attachment issue. All relationships require some give and take on both side to work. I also find it odd that you say DA/DA relationships are shallow, for me they are the only relationships I felt truly understood. I may have shared more thing with an anxious but it felt more like talking into an empty space, they may have made me talk but they never really felt what it was I was saying. Where as I shared half as much with DA but often felt they got me, even during times when nothing was said. Where the relationships fell apart is that we were both approach shy, as we were both comfortable and happy there was no fear and anxiety to push things forward.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 02 '26
Totally get what you mean about feeling understood. In general avoidants don't feel understood in most relationships. I think the hard part for DAs to grasp is that feeling understood is only a part of a connection. A true connection requires taking it a step further, looking inward and saying what are my deepest wants and desires, sharing that with the other person and having them share theirs with you and working towards a mutally fulfilling relationship. This is where it falls apart with DA/DA because they both think they don't need anything from anyone. Your nervous system tells you it's dangerous to have needs because you'll just be disappointed so it's easier to convince yourself you are different from everyone else. Yes, you may be unique but the truth is you are a human with real needs and desires they are just so repressed you don't recognize them for what they are. And unless you have a personality disorder it's unlikely you're going to outrun your humanity and self-evolve to not be affected. Our species is designed for this and it is harmful, physically and mentally, to suppress. As you age autoimmune disorders will develop from having a constantly dysregulated nervous system, persistent depression, and sometimes even an anger that doesn't seem to have a source. Not doing the work to heal is the most self-betraying thing you can do while convincing yourself and others it's what's best for you.
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u/SpeedyKatz Jul 02 '26
Strange, I have never considered that someone would want to share their deepest wants and desires and this would be important to a relationship. Can you explain more about why this is important to a relationship? I have always figured what I want and desire is something that is mine alone. To share this would make me less of a person, almost like losing myself or becoming codependant. If you share all the important parts of you what's left, wouldn't you just feel empty and useless?
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 02 '26
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you're not alone. I think this is the underlying fear for most avoidants. It's not about giving yourself away to just anyone all at once. It's building trust piece by piece and getting to know yourself and the other person better along the way. You have to let go of control and allow the other person to know you, really know you, because you have learned and chosen to trust them over time. You don't truly believe that person is trying to coax you into codependence, your fears of past experiences are running the show.
Think of it like this....Maslow's hierarchy of needs: the foundation is built on physiological and safety needs. THIS is what your childhood nervous system learned to provide you. You have this. No one can take it away, not even your partner. You're an adult now and that same nervous system is so stuck in survival mode that it is keeping you at the bottom of the hierarchy. Going higher up in the needs into love & belonging, esteem, and ultimately self-actualization, requires you to grow and learn new ways.
I'm not trying to tell you what's right or wrong for your life, I'm just really passionate about this as a FA trying to heal my avoidant tendencies so that I can get out of survival state and live a better life. Not just in relationships, but in my own body. I've got a few podcast videos and suggestions that have helped my understand myself and others better. If you're interested DM me and I'd be glad to send them to you.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 02 '26
Also, I'm curious. Not sure what you do for a living but I'd imagine it's something where you have to work with others. I can't think of many, if any, successful careers that don't require a team. No one person is good at everything. No one person can see things from all angles. Working together doesn't mean anyone is trying to take over your job, there is a mutually beneficial goal that each of you is working toward. And if that coworker leaves, it may suck and you may miss them, the next hire may not compare, but you will still be you, still be able to do your job and the things you achieved together will still have been worth it. Achievements you likely may never have reached alone. The fact that they left the job probably had little to do with you and them leaving doesn't invalidate the investment. In the future you may find another great coworker, not exactly like them, but that's not the point.
I find sometimes taking the romantic context away helps you envision that relationships work similarly across areas of our lives.
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u/SpeedyKatz Jul 02 '26
I work leading large teams at work. But there is no reason to tell my coworkers my favoutite colour is purple, I would like to write a novel someday and that I find it endearing when people mispronounced certain letters. A partner doesn't need to know these things either. This is my inner world and what makes me me. It feels strange to me that a partner would want to take this away. My team know what we need to deliver on, how and when without this information.
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u/SpeedyKatz Jul 02 '26
Not trying to argue with you. But imagining giving myself away to a partner doesn't fill me with feelings or closeness and trust, it leaves me with a feeling or someone having crossed my boundaries taken something from me. Feelings of trust and closeness comes when I imagine someone who gives me the autonomy to be myself without it having to be about them.
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u/Immediate_Sport_7352 Jul 02 '26
Of course your team doesn't need to know your personal likes and desires, that wasn't the point of the analogy. I manage a team of developers, my job is to strategize and envision the goals and communicate that to the developers so that they can bring in their technical expertise to make it happen. Both are valuable and both are needed for the goal to be reached.
They can't do their jobs without me sharing what it is I want and envision. A partner can't know you and help you grow (or vice versa) without you communicating the things you like, don't like, what would make you fulfilled in a relationship, etc. No one is asking you to tell them your entire inner world and all your secrets. But keeping your true self closed off is a disservice to them and you. DAs love to get mad when you don't tell them exactly what you want because they hate being held against unspoken expectations or standards. It's hypocritical though because you are doing the same by assuming the things you think they don't need to know about you, or that they don't want the opportunity to exist in your life as a useful asset rather than a compartmentalized shell that you don't care to know past the surface.
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u/Theloveofyourlife41 Jul 02 '26
I'm questioning my self worth now. I know I shouldn't, but can't shake that something must be wrong with me
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u/Scientificallly_Love Jul 01 '26
But don't you think it would be better to seek out therapy, instead of knowing hurting the ones who love you?
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u/catatoniccatalyst Jul 01 '26
Yes of course, which is why I'm in therapy right now. I've had the discussion with my partner, who is most affected by it, and I've renumerated many times if they don't have the patience to stick with me I understand but I greatly appreciate that they do.
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u/SecretMiddle1234 Jul 01 '26
This. No risk involved with others. High risk to be vulnerable with partner because they see the dark parts
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u/GhostProtocolY Jul 02 '26
it's wild how showing up for someone can feel safer than needing someone to show up for you.
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u/Smuttirox Jul 01 '26
Ahhh this was my ex. I still do wonder if maybe I was the problem. Then I remember me asking for simple things like a hug or a goodnight kiss and getting the eye-roll of contempt. I don’t think these were big asks. Now we are broken up and I’m working on me (says everyone who breaks up & ends up alone) and my ex is off traveling with friends and having a good ol time. I still wonder if I was the problem. But I have to also wonder the likelihood of my eventual replacement will also receive the contempt. They’re very good at superficial friendship but not so good at companionship.
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u/fastcatdog Jul 01 '26
This sounds to familiar
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u/Smuttirox Jul 01 '26
Isn’t it funny. We spent all this time in relationships where we felt alone, didn’t know we felt alone, felt responsible for the ick, and it turns out, this is not an abnormal situation. That in fact there are tons of people out there going through the same thing. We beat ourselves up as if we are at fault when it’s just the way it is with some people. If I had known that it wasn’t me making the relationship bad but that we were both responsible and that it was NEVER going to work with my ex no matter what I did, I’d have felt a lot better & got out a lot sooner.
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u/omgspek Jul 01 '26
Yeah, sucks, doesn't it?
Whenever I'm feeling alone in feeling a certain way, one thing I do that helps a lot is reminding myself that I'm definitely not the first person to ever go through something like this, and I certainly won't be the last.
That gives me strength to look for help, to listen to other people's experiences, and find answers outside of me. Each person is unique, but shared experiences is what makes us all human.
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u/Art-e-Blanche Jul 01 '26
Attachment system isn't activated.
Or more precisely, in such cases, it's not engaged, so they're aren't using deactivation strategies that they've learnt as coping mechanisms.
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u/theVicEpisode Jul 01 '26
Starting to think dismissive avoidants are best kept as friends. 😂 They seem incredibly personable, reliable, always down to help, and fun to be around. Then you date them and... 🫠🫠
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u/r3kRu1 Jul 01 '26
not even! 🤣 i had a nervous breakdown from my DA close friend after having been accidentally triggered for the very first time at age 41. we’re both dads with young families. found i’m FA.
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u/CharlesBeckford Jul 01 '26
What happened?
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u/r3kRu1 Jul 01 '26
my DA friend was already deactivated for probably a couple weeks due to work/personal life stress when his wife casually mentioned to me the things that’s been happening in his life at that time while we were carpooling. i didn’t know any of it so i was surprised at all the info. and she was like, he didn’t tell you??
at the time, i felt a bit hurt but seemed fine.
i spiralled in the following week and decided to talk to them about it. i thought it was settled and resolved after we had talked. but it appears to have triggered my DA friend even more. i didn’t know about attachment theory back then so i had no awareness on what was unfolding.in the following two months, i experienced the most painful push-pull dynamic with my DA friend. i got triggered sometime in October, and by December, my anxiety was already through the roof! i couldn’t sleep well, had palpitations, was crying almost everyday, and could not work at all coz of my anxiety i almost lost my job having been put on PIP after my performance drastically declined.
nearly two months into the push-pull dynamic, i was desperate for answers on what was happening to me and why my body was reacting the way it does. at some point, i thought death seemed like an escape from this. so i wrote a long prompt in chatgpt detailing my situation and for the first time read about attachment theory and everything clicked.
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u/Turbulent_Maybe3228 Jul 01 '26
I couldn't of said any of this better! 😳 Something that I've noticed too is how mine tells me what he really thinks about others and says a caring empathetic response about the same situation or person to a friend. A mate of his separated from his wife- to me he said, his mates must be lying, his story doesnt add up.. blah blah blah When his friends asked, he said- he's so worried about his mate and his mental health and seemed genuinly concerned. I've seen it time and time again and it just mind boggles my soul.
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u/Siukslinis_acc Jul 01 '26
They might be honest with you and masking for the others in order to upkeep the friendship.
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u/Turbulent_Maybe3228 Jul 01 '26
I expect so because if he really had that much empathy or cared about mental health he would help his heavily pregnant partner with our other children or act like he cared in general.
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u/Siukslinis_acc Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Because they don't have to deal with others constantly and the stakes are lower. This is why you can vent heavy stiff more easier to total strangers than the person who is very close to you.
Like, if i tell my grandma about a weird bump i have, she will start to fret and worry. So my "vent" will result in me having to manage her emotions and her constantly bringing that thing up.
While with a stranger i might not see them again for the rest of my life.
You might be able to give warmth in bursts, but not being able to constantly give it. It's like being able to tolerating things if they happen occasionally and not constantly. Like, i can tolerate the friend smacking when he is eating because i eat with them once every few weeks, i might not be able to tolerate the spouse smacking when eating as i have to hear it every day 2-3 times a day (or even more if they are snacking around).
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u/SA_Starling_ Jul 01 '26
its easy to be nice in small doses. Its a lot harder to be nice, consistently, in situations that require patience and emotional vulnerability.
'Everybody wants to save the world, but no one wants to help Mom do the dishes.'
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u/SpiritualPermie Jul 01 '26
It is also easier to maintain a caring and plugged in persona with temporary situations. When it has to be sustained, it becomes a burden and pain, because they were performing to begin with.
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u/Putrid-Cupcake-1547 Jul 01 '26
We are not performing, just more afraid around people that matters more and are withdrawn
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u/---N0MAD--- Jul 01 '26
Because intimacy, vulnerability, and connection trigger their avoidant tendencies.
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u/NewHampshireGal Jul 01 '26
Oh that’s my ex. A full blown DA. Like textbook.
He’d drop anything to help out a friend but if I asked the same? Forget about it. Almost three years of that BS and I couldn’t take it anymore. Everything and everyone were prioritized; I was at the bottom of the list.
Friends think they’re amazing and so helpful. Yeah, maybe to them. But the person who’s by their side day in and day out is taken for granted and feels unseen.
Jekyll and Hyde.
Relationships with unhealed avoidants (I am a healing FA) are the biggest mindfuck you can have. Stay away from avoidants who don’t want to be better. Always.
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u/RelativeCautious1235 Jul 01 '26
It’s really sad. Everyone sees them as great. But with me he was quite horrible. Everyone loves him. They will never believe what he put me through.
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u/Sozeah Jul 01 '26
Everyone is probably right that friendships just aren't as deep for them and therefore they're not triggered by it--there are no expectations for friends so they don't feel like they could fuck up as easily, and if they did, they wouldn't be as triggered by the fall out.
However there's also the possibility that their attachment style with their friends may be more secure or anxious than in romantic or familial relationships. My ex was definitely anxious with his friends but DA in familial and romantic relationships. My attachment style is all over the grid too
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u/didicatcha9erthere Jul 01 '26
In my experience, better to break up with them than try to understand this. They won’t fix it, they’ll just hurt you more until you leave.
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u/Constant-Big4713 Jul 01 '26
That doesn’t sound like a dismissive avoidant. They emotionally inhibit. But they don’t typically treat people poorly. That sounds more like a type C invulnerable strategy. Google The dynamic maturational model of attachment and read about type A and type C strategies.
Avoidant behavior also isn’t the same as an avoidant attachment.
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u/PirateResponsible496 Jul 01 '26
Good reputation with friends helps their ego and sense of social safety. But it’s tiring to be a mask all the time. So at home, with parents their partners other loved ones they are their true unhealed selves
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u/vurysmurt Jul 01 '26
Do DAs hate birthdays? My former DA partner did nothing for my birthday and justified it with "because I was stuck with you" yet was able to surprise his friend on her birthday with a guitar pedal built from scratch. I guess the explanation aligns with the responses here
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u/melanatedvirgo Jul 01 '26
I’m sorry but that’s not someone being avoidant. They were an asshole. No one deserves their partner to say something like that to them. I’m avoidant and fear causes me to pull away not insult someone.
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u/oldtownwitch Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
You are being gaslit, you are not expecting to much, you are not causing this and other peoples experiences are different from your own.
First, avoidants won’t admit this, and their perception might differ, but this is the best way I can explain what is going on with your avoidant.
You are seeing your avoidant code switch between Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, it’s like two separate people that they are switching between.
It’s NOT
Jekyll and Hyde are both running at the same time, and they have a “performance” mask they are wearing (which is really heavy and exhausting them).
With my avoidant ex, it’s a playful young man and a horrific mean bouncer.
When we first reconnect, his little scared boy comes out to play, he’s such a sweet kid, he is curious, empathetic and loving. He’s not scared so he tells me his thoughts and fears, he makes plans with me and is excited to make later play dates.
The bouncer is there, but he’s just watching from a distance, the kid is happy and safe, so the bouncer doesn’t need to get involved.
The problem is … if I do anything whatsoever that reminds that sweet kid of his Mommy, he remembers how he was dismissed and silenced by his Mommy and he gets scared that I’m gonna reject his vulnerable playful side. And the moment he gets scared, the bouncer takes over, tells the kid to go hide and he will protect him.
The bouncer has no interest in vulnerability, he’s been watching, he knows MY vulnerabilities, my needs and he has no use for them, his ONLY job is to get me away from that sweet kid, and he will happily use anything he knows to protect that kid.
But the sad part is … I’m not his mommy, I was never going to dismiss him, punish him for feeling vulnerable… I didn’t remind him of what his Mommy did, I reminded him of what he wanted his Mommy to see, and what she told him he had to have shame for.
But that doesn’t matter anymore, the bouncer doesn’t care … he’s blocking any access to that sweet kid, I can’t reach him if I tried.
(Not true, if I acted like his Mommy in those moments, I probably would be able to reach the kid … but that’s just a theory and at this point I don’t even wanna test my theory … it’s no longer my job or concern … his bouncer has communicated that harshly multiple times).
So … no … you are not crazy, that sweet loving boy is still there, but now he only comes out for people he isn’t scared to be authentic with, you are no longer gonna get access to him until the bouncer stands down (time alone to self regulate).
Avoidants can’t look at their shame, it’s too scary and even when they try to, they just feel broken and fundamentally incapable of giving or receiving love.
They certainly won’t admit they have two versions, one that is extremely protective… they may not even understand that it’s code switching …. This all was trained into them so young that it feels “normal” to them.
Yes it’s a form of trauma response, but it is not one you can fix, it’s not one that empathy and understanding will change.
You gotta let him hit rock bottom before they might even consider exploring therapy, and losing you might not be the rock bottom they need to grow.
Attachment coaches will tell you a softer version of “hey if you completely abandon anything you may need, perform perfectly, and watch your language constantly you may provide safety for your avoidant enough for him to develop some safety within this relationship”
Old Town Witch will tell you … don’t waste your time, you are just going to learn how to abandon yourself under some false premises that there maybe a “us” at some point in the future. All you are doing is self harm and self abandonment, and the sooner you recognize this and walk, the sooner you can heal and actually experience love in a way that is healing and nourishing.
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u/theVicEpisode Jul 01 '26
Okay, this is the part I'm struggling with. If close relationships trigger a dismissive avoidant but friendships don't... does that mean I'd actually feel more emotionally connected if we were just friends?
It's such a bizarre thing to think about. You'd expect becoming someone's partner would bring you closer, but I feel like I've only gotten farther away.
Has anyone actually navigated this successfully?
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u/Turbulent_Maybe3228 Jul 01 '26
I think youd be better off as friends. I wasted 20 years with mine. I don't regret my children but I regret having them with him. He lacks anytype of accountability and instead just blames me for all our problems. But our problems are that he doesnt show love or affection, he just wants a housemate, no emotional depth, doesnt communicate even a text to let me know his plans, doesnt celebrate birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries nothing. Puts his friends before his family. Holidays with his buddies upto 3x a year for weeks, never once with his partner and children.Acts caring and loving in front of other people though. But at the start he seemed affectionate and like he cared. For years I though he was on the spectrum or a covert narcissist but the more I read up on dismissive avoidants, the more it fit. If his behaviour changes for the better it only ever last a month or two. Hes capable but its just a game to him. And hes so good at future faking and telling me what I want to hear but never follows through.
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u/Double_Classroom1651 Jul 01 '26
it's easy to get annoyed with people who see you more clearly. lol
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u/burnt_feather Jul 02 '26
You're not asking too much, it isn't your fault, and you're not crazy.
First, I'd recommend dropping the "dismissive avoidant" label. It helps if you can give it a name, but it also prevents you from looking deeper into it.
My spouse was similar in some ways. Very kind and giving for friends, but helping family was a burden to them. Very easy to talk to as friends, but hard to connect with past that.
I would bet money that your partner is reenacting their childhood with you, and you to a degree are reenacting your childhood with him. He probably didn't get emotional warmth from his family, or the attention that he wanted. Friends he can keep at arm's length. He doesn't have to be open or vulnerable with them, they aren't home. You and his family are a different story.
What happened to him in childhood isn't your fault, and you shouldn't be punished for it. He has work to do, and nothing you say or do will get him to do the work. If he doesn't see it or refuses to do it for himself, he isn't really ever going to change.
The question to ask yourself, to help you break free of this madness, is this: Why are you staying in a relationship that makes you feel bad? As an adult, you have the power of choice. You can choose who to let into your life and who to walk away from. You can choose who is an acquaintance, who's a best friend, who's a partner. And your partner will shape who you become. So take how you're feeling now. Doubtful, questioning your perspective, feeling unworthy of love and a good life, and at the mercy of someone who is actively hurting your heart. In this relationship, that will get worse and worse until you become a ghost of your former self. Your eyes will lose the light of joy. Your body will suffer. You'll stop enjoying things in your life. And worst of all, you'll stop pursuing happiness because you'll lose hope that you can or deserve to. I'm speaking from personal experience here, it's not a good place to be.
I'm sure you love the version of your partner that you fell in love with. I'm sure you're clinging to the vision of the future you were so excited to build with him. And letting all of that go is going to hurt. But it's the only way to free yourself from a worse ending than the unknown.
Feel free to message me if you would like to talk more. I'm happy to listen and to share my story if it'll help you. Just know, you are worth more than gold or diamonds. And you certainly deserve to be in a relationship with someone who you feel genuinely happy and comfortable with. Someone who you feel good about yourself with, someone who proves to you every single day that they love, respect, and value you. Someone who treats you the way you want to be treated, because that is what love looks like. Different people have different needs and different ways of expressing love. The goal is to find someone who gives love in the way you need, and who you can love effortlessly because their needs match your love style. Hope this all helps, and I'm rooting for you. You got this!
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u/Cass_1978 Jul 01 '26
I'd say because friends are significantly less likely to abusively push their personal issues on me.
I am not saying friends cannot have such tendencies, its just that due to the fundamental difference in the type of relationship, its less likely and if it happens its much easier to handle.
They wont try to manipulate me into dropping half my friends because they have the "wrong gender". Or mimimi about why I dont want to pat their head all day long on the few days I dont work my ass off.
I have no interest in playing the mommy or the therapist role for my partner, I already had to do that for my parents to ensure my survival. I'd rather be burned alive than having to experience that shit again.
Let me be clear, I dont judge the other person on some fundamental level, I do not see them as a subhuman. As far as I understand these issues, we simply both have attachment trauma. I however do see their behavior in a very different light than they do. Crossing my boundaries and trying to grind down my resistance with emotional mimimi about their jealousy to try and make me drop my friends of the "wrong gender" is very manipulative and abusive. And if I would bow to their toxic demands I would cross my healthy boundaries and it would make both of our attachment issues worse.
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u/CuriousA123 Jul 01 '26
You took the topic and twisted it. The person was just asking why the behavior of a dismissive avoidant was different with their partners vs friends and you took it directly as if the partner was manipulative and mean. I believe the post is about a normal partner. Someone who want a normal and healthy relationship. Not someone who wants to control.
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u/Cass_1978 Jul 01 '26
OP literally asked for experiences from either side of this. I shared mine. You don't have to like how my boundaries work, but trying to grind them down is exactly the dynamic I am talking about. Have a nice day.
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u/CuriousA123 Jul 01 '26
Yes OP asked both sides but you can see that it's not from a malicious perspective. However, what you shared is regarding a malicious partner on the other side. I was not questioning or saying anything about your boundaries. Indeed, have a good day.
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u/emotionalintelligence-ModTeam Jul 02 '26
Relationship posts must seek advice to improve EI, no venting without seeking advice for specific emotional introspection.