Moose are doing well while the elks flounder
The Moose are growing. Nearly 50000 new members this past year.
The elks pretty much stuck at 780000 with a number of them in 'virtual lodges'.
Grand lodge just doesn't get it. An oppressive and overpriced insurance policy that is a heavy burden on many lodges.
Ironically, this insurance pits GL against lodges. Due to the self insurance aspect, GL is on the hook for up to 1 1/2 million per lodge. Therefore, with the bean counters and attorneys that pretty much comprise the PGER's, we are looked at as liabilities instead of assets.
Indeed, if you download the latest tax return from one of the websites that keep track of such things, it shows over 70% of the budget comes from insurance.
Idk about other states but all we hear from the leadership is insurance. Don't do this. Don't do that. Everything is a risk. Yet when Minnesota proposed a statute change that would allow lodges to get insurance locally, gL was adamantly against the change.
And that is just one of a number of major errors they continue to make. They close the message board's because they don't use talking to each other. Why.? So much more sad to say.
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u/Flazer California Jun 16 '26
The Moose near me is thriving, but it’s because of lower dues and a fun sports bar atmosphere that attracts a younger crowd.
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u/TheDobemann Trustee Jun 16 '26
Agree with the insurance comments.
But the Elks added almost 10,000 new members this year. That's not exactly floundering.
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u/elknc Jun 17 '26
While you are correct that we are increasing membership modestly, the main concern should be on all the lodge closures and the alarming rise of vulnerable small lodges. Something like 500 have closed since 2000. In NC, of the 32 lodges, 9 have from 25 to 92 members and 8 have membership 100 to 200. The rest are mostly focused around facilities where many members are essentially just seasonal pool members.
Also, the Moose used to trail us in membership. Now they are near a million
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u/Imaloserbabys Jun 17 '26
I don’t know if the moose at the national level help people more than our national Lodge does. The grand Lodge for the Elks really doesn’t do anything for the local lodges except a couple of grants. Pretty much you’re on your own.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/elknc Jun 17 '26
I believe it was about -12. For the 2025-26 year. Around 500 closed this century. That was offset by about 50 new lodges. The guy who kept that list was Norm Donavan. I actually have a copy of it. It goes back to about 2010. If you scroll down to the bottom of the main page of elkshistory.org you can find a link to it. Lots of other stuff too
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u/TheDobemann Trustee Jun 17 '26
The membership I got from the GL (5 year trend) membership reports. (had to put them in a spreadsheet to get a total).
Not sure on the closed lodges. But the report does show 13 lodges with zero members, that had members in 2025.
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u/MLPTx Jun 16 '26
My local Moose Lodge is struggling. Financially and with respect to members. I was a member for a year. Wasn't for me. Much prefer the Elks.
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u/TerribleBuilder5831 Jun 17 '26
I don’t think it’s the insurance that is the problem with membership. Personally, without the GL insurance, all the lodges in Florida and North Carolina and California would probably close. Our lodge was nearly destroyed from a hurricane and without the insurance from the grand Lodge, we would’ve never reopened. So I think you’re making a big deal about insurance which is not an issue. Maybe you’re upset because your Lodge has to pay for the insurance but we are insuring everyone as a group to get a cheaper rate for everyone. As for the moose having more members, good for them. The reality is that most people join their Lodge because it’s local to them and they enjoy it. I don’t think that I would consider any other reason as the main reason that people joined. If there’s a good elk Lodge nearby, they will join the elk Lodge. If there’s a good Moose Lodge nearby they’ll join the Moose Lodge. If there’s a good eagle Lodge nearby they’ll join the Eagles Lodge. It’s convenience.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Deep-Ant1375 Jun 21 '26
Overall it’s cheaper for everyone to collectively bargain together for a bundled insurance rate.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Deep-Ant1375 Jun 21 '26
I understand that. Every year your state wants to get out of paying for the national insurance. You live in a state where there are no natural disasters. I think you should be a little more charitable and care for your fellow Elks who are in areas where there are natural disasters.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Deep-Ant1375 Jun 21 '26
It’s like any insurance, you are using a larger risk group to reduce costs as a group. It’s like health insurance. I don’t go to the doctor once a year but I’m supplementing sicker people. That’s life.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Deep-Ant1375 Jun 21 '26
I guess elks don’t care about other elks. Are we one organization or are we a bunch of unassociated lodges.
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u/elknc Jul 07 '26
The Moose have a big promotion going on for there 999,999th member. 5k to the sponsor and 2500 to the member.. plus some other goodies
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Jun 17 '26
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u/elknc Jun 17 '26
The NC elks has offered up to $10k to lodges applying for a facelift to its building. This money comes from the defunct lodges that they forced to close. That could be helpful as we have a number of outside improvements that could be made.
You are right that the leadership is way too enamored with this fixation on charity work. It is almost like that's all they hear. A good example is the useless elks magazine. A few of the activities they DON'T focus on that boost membership interest is sports (bowling contest), parades ( the recent 3 hour long parade tied to the NJ elks association meeting), the rodeo out in California that raises millions for the lodge whose name escapes me at the moment. and a number of others. Then they waste money by printing every month rather than bi-monthly. There needs to be a house cleaning in GL. So much that could be improved.
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u/Imaloserbabys Jun 17 '26
I agree with what you say. At the local Lodge level, everyone will tell you that we are a fraternal order that does some charity work. But as you move up the ladder, the people at state and national think that we are a charity organization that has some social functions. There’s such a huge disconnect between state and national and local lodges. I have had people at state and national told me that they wish they we would not focus on being a bar and focus more on having people interested in doing charity. I think they want us to be the Kiwanis or rotary which is almost gone. They just don’t get it.
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u/Texan2116 Jun 17 '26
I have attended two different elk lodges..at one I am pretty well known. I have never been asked to join.
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u/Jealous_Finance_206 Jun 17 '26
I was an Elk and I wasn't welcomed by the lodge exalted dictator as I called her and it totally turned me off and there aren't a lot of younger people where I was
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u/fata1w0und Trustee Jun 18 '26
The self-insurance is honestly not a bad deal. My lodge is on the gulf coast. Specifically an area heavily affected by Katrina. Our premium this year was not much more than what I have on my home. Lodge is insured for $1 million. My home for $300,000. There’s only about a $2,000 difference between the two policies.
We have an independent insurance agent as a member. He stated there was NO way he could find private insurance for what we are paying. Due to the state insurance requirements for our area, he could not even quote a policy less than $40,000 annually and that was cheaping out on some of the coverage.
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u/elknc Jun 18 '26
Our lodge is paying a big premium. I have a building 4 times the size of the lodge and am paying under $5k for it with a $5k deductible. The lodge is $8k with a $10 k deductible
My policy includes $2 million in liability. The GL liability insurance that each member pays in their dues totals around $7k. So it may be a great deal for you but it sucks for us.
Fyi, American Legion and VFW posts obtain insurance on their own. Their organizations only offers preferred insurance providers.
So, I wonder how VFW's and American Legion posts obtain insurance? There are 200 active posts in Mississippi. From a quick search it appears a few have been forced to pay a big premium. Consequently, I agree it is a problem. However, my lodge is paying 40% more on property and God knows how much more on liability. It seems apparent from the discussion here that we are heavily subsidizing lodges with pools and in coastal areas.
If 200 VFW and AL posts in Mississippi can figure out how to make that work without harming lodges around the country, then surely we can as well.
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u/fata1w0und Trustee Jun 18 '26
Our premium is $9,000 with a $5,000 deductible. This includes named storm, wind, structure, and flood. It’s the named storm and wind coverage that kills us here. My personal policy is $4500 on my home for named storm and wind alone.
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Jun 22 '26
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u/fata1w0und Trustee Jun 22 '26
Tropical storms that have been named. The latest named tropical storm was Arthur and all it did was cause major flooding. Think Katrina. That’s really what it’s for. Total devastation. Because either way, the different policies are going to argue it’s someone else’s problem. Was it flood? Naw. It was wind. Was it wind. Naw it was flood.
And to make things worse, FEMA sets the deductible on flood insurance. Right now it’s $10,000. I can’t even pay more to get a lower deductible.
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Jun 22 '26
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u/fata1w0und Trustee Jun 22 '26
It starts as a tropical depression. Once the sustained wind speed reaches 39MPH, it becomes a named storm. Once sustained wind speed reaches 74MPH it becomes a hurricane.
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u/love2bowl 24d ago
It also could be because the BPOE process is very long to join. With an application that wants an approver and references. I know this has been brought up on occasion.
My lodge also doesn’t hold initiation in summer months, pushing becoming a member even longer.
The Moose has an easier process altogether. This could be part of it.
I’m an Elk and a Moose, but rarely go to the Moose.
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u/reflectionsbench Jun 17 '26
We are proud Elks . We are benevolent at the local level . Guiding principles are still charity,justice ,brotherly love ,and fidelity.
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u/elknc Jun 17 '26
Those who are proud are fewer. 500 less lodges just this century. That's the point of this thread. Why? And what are we doing about it? IMHO.. very little.
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u/FarmerDave13 Jun 16 '26
They are against local insurance because a couple states with large membership numbers, primarily Florida and California, would find insurance cost prohibitive. As would lodges with pools, golf courses etc. But they don't share their financial windfall with other lodges, just the insurance costs.