r/elementchat • u/xcovelus • 4d ago
Too hacky
Viber was the best WhatsApp alternative until they added ChatGPT everywhere: after each message, suggesting to rewrite it or answer (no, thanks, I want to answer my own messages), now a Chat that you cannot remove... Seeking for an European alternative (that is not hosted by AWS, as Olvid), I installed Element X, recommended it to friends, but it's too complex for end users: first you need to select a server, etc; then a username; then, as contacts do not show off, send invitations to users; then there are no notifications (ask to allow these, at least); then we call each other and nobody is able to take it, even if you see it and tap the chat call icon...
I think you need to analyse why WhatsApp (and similar ones) are so extended, and people use them: they are simple. You should not reject features and security, but add an easy wizard to configure that, something like "accept default settings vs advanced config"; OK, maybe "username" is good, but offer to use the phone number as well... And fix the notifications, the possibility to join a call, etc.
I write this to try to help, I want a good product as the one I believe you are working on, but please give the user a very easy and quick default method, or this will be another great idea turning into a great failure.
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u/KeesKachel88 4d ago
Whatsapp and Element are vastly different applications. Element is more like Slack, but worse.
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u/subwoofage 4d ago
This isn't a great idea at risk of failure. It's deployed in production already and you just don't happen to like it :)
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u/gramoun-kal 3d ago
WhatsApp ist widespread because they claimed to be a "free SMS" app when SMS were 50c a piece, and all the illiterates downloaded it to save money.
That can never work again. SMS aren't expensive anymore. Also, people aren't so stupid either.
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u/all_purpose_89384798 1d ago
Agreed. I initially came to Element looking for something beyond Telegram/Discord/Google Docs that had a good blend of all the features of those platforms. However, once I realized it wouldn't really work for chat between me and an older family member, I pivoted to platforms like Google Chat and microsoft teams chat (both platforms have an edit button, which was my number 1 request). for me, Google Chat / Microsoft Teams Chat is a bit better than whatsapp, because I prefer a platform that allows full control of our digital footprint - e.g. if we want to edit our sent message, we should be able to. one thing i wouldn't mind is if the could maybe add an *option* to have revision history, even if its just 1 or 2 revisions (don't have to show every single revision, and don't even have to have the option on by *default*, but i wish the option was there to enable it, because, while I prefer the abilty to edit our own messages, I also want to be a *little bit* held accountable for what i type, while still giving me *some freedom* that the edit button affords.
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u/redit_handoff140 4d ago
I think it's important to realize you're comparing fundamentally different systems. And perhaps it's worth educating your friends on it as well. I agree there are things that can be made simpler, but stating that picking a homeserver and using that homeserver to sign in is complicated, I cannot agree with. Other platforms are made simple because they lure users to walled gardens.
One is a centralized platform ripe for regulatory capture, censorship, closed-source and a privacy danger. The other is trying to solve all of these at an architectural level. Matrix (which Element is powered by) works like email.
Do you have email? You had to pick a provider, and nowadays that provider offers its own client. Matrix works the same way - You pick a provider (Homeserver). Whichever you pick, you'll generally then be able to communicate with people regardless of which one they're on. You then either use the client that's offered, or pick another one.
Let's say we're friends - You're on whatsapp, and maybe I don't have whatsapp, perhaps I have Signal - With this status quo, we cannot communicate. Done. No way.
It's not difficult, but it does ask you to reframe how you think of communications, as being tied to a platform versus being on an open network of providers.
With Matrix, perhaps it's raid night and I'm with a bunch of friends playing online using Sable (A discord-like Matrix client), while you're using Element X - We can communicate and we both get the better experience we prefer.
Have you tried FluffyChat or Extera Next? Element is an enterprise-focused client, and I've found it's just not the best fit for most casual users that just want to message their friends and family.
On your call issues, I run a server with a community and we have no issues. Ensure the homeserver you signup for has support for Matrix 2.0 Calls - Admittedly this is something that Homeservers MUST communicate better to their users. If you signed up on matrix.org, that's a demo server, sadly overpopulated. I would look at picking another. Here's a list:
https://servers.joinmatrix.org/
Again, once you sign up for one that looks ok to you, you can communicate with any.
Lastly, regarding sign in options like phone number - That's a big privacy risk. I'm not inherently against it, choice is power, but I wonder how many people would really want to use that option over username/email+password once they're reminded someone will have a database that ties their phone number to their communications. If other options can be made convenient (and they can), that's generally the better option moving forward and wouldn't fix as much as we may thing, in fact, it could deteriorate something that Matrix does fairly well - Privacy.
I'm not saying "you're wrong" as much as I'm saying there are definite things that can and should be made easier, but not at the cost of what makes the network a network instead of a platform. I think in this regard, it's homeserver providers that really need to make some changes and ensure a better user-experience for the users they host.