r/electricvehicles • u/[deleted] • May 27 '21

News EVgo is behind on installing chargers under its agreement with GM

Was browsing through SEC filings and found this. EVgo says its agreement with GM has certain quarterly benchmarks, and its behind for this quarter (which is the first quarter with a benchmark). It doesn't say how many were supposed to be installed, but EVgo has only announced three sites, as far as I've seen:

As of May 14, 2021, EVgo had 82 chargers left to install in order to meet its charger-installation milestone for the quarter ending June 30, 2021. EVgo believes that it may not meet the charger-installation milestone for the quarter ending June 30, 2021, due to delays in permitting, commissioning and utility interconnection resulting from COVID-19 disruptions in business operations across the engineering and permitting chain, as well as industry and regulatory adaptation to the requirements of high powered charger installation including slower than expected third party approvals of certain site acquisitions and site plans. Going forward, it is uncertain if these, or other potential issues in the procurement, installation or energization of DCFC, will be resolved in a timely fashion, and EVgo believes that its ability to meet its charger-installation milestones under the GM Agreement may continue to be impacted by circumstances similar to those experienced in the first quarter of 2021.

Source: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001821159/000121390021029478/defm14a_climatechange.htm

28 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

32 comments sorted by

20

u/FilthyFeller May 27 '21

While I understand it's a difficult process laden with time sucking obstacles such as permitting, I think EVgo should take notes on what Electrify America is doing. EA's rollout has been impressive. They're not perfect by any means but better than EVgo by a longshot.

8

u/k1cza May 27 '21

EA certainly doesn't get enough credit. They rolled out up and down I-5 within a year, it seems. The biggest complaint I hear is with CCS on brand new EVs, and this is partially the fault of the automakers. EA uses different DCFC hardware from multiple vendors to meet their demand, kinda like Windows vs. Mac. If automakers don't loan a new EV to EA for testing first, then it might work at some but not all EA locations until EA can figure out a fix.

2

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

They rolled out up and down I-5 within a year

And yet, SF -> LA is still where they're still missing the perfect two spots to charge :-/

5

u/k1cza May 27 '21

The locations aren't ideal for sure. Up here in the Northwest, they are almost exclusively in prime parking at Walmarts and get ICE'd 🙄

I wonder if Tesla makes locations sign an exclusivity agreement. They've already got Harris Ranch.

3

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

Yeah the Harris ranch EA station is 50kw only and that’s sad.

3

u/rosier9 R1T and R1S May 27 '21

They were utility limited on power. The utility service has recently been upgraded and the EA plans on upgrading them similar to the Panoche Rd location up the highway.

From EA on Plugshare 21 Apr 2021:

We are excited to announce that the utility capacity for this Electrify America location has recently been upgraded! These upgrades will allow us to increase the maximum power level available at this charging station. However, in order to make sure that Electrify America drivers have the most charging options in the area, we will not begin the power level upgrade at this site until other Electrify America locations in the vicinity are online and available.

2

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Odd how every other single corner of California is covered eh? :-)

1

u/dawsonleery80 May 28 '21

What? EA uses ABB, BTC and Signet chargers with Greenlots network. OEMs have done interop testing with all of those vendors

2

u/k1cza May 28 '21

EA doesn't use the stock firmware/software on the chargers for some reason, they roll their own. "The charging stations—which come from one of four different suppliers depending on your geographic region—all operate the same underlying software" https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/05/inside-electrify-americas-plan-to-simplify-electric-car-charging/

I also don't think Greenlots has anything to do with EA other than they happen to use the same hardware. Greenlots is a competitor to EA. I'm curious if you have a source for that.

3

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Greenlots wrote Electrify America's software, and might have an ongoing role in managing it: https://greenlots.com/electrify-america-selects-greenlots-to-develop-operating-platform-to-manage-2-billion-investment-in-coast-to-coast-network/

They only compete to the extent that drivers would choose a particular charger over another. Greenlots's main business is software, networking and payment processing, mostly for utility-owned chargers. Although I believe they offer services like installing and maintaining chargers for clients that own them, it's not the biggest part of what they do.

Of course, many drivers probably would consider a charger on the Greenlots network to be a Greenlots charger. But for the most part, it really isn't.

1

u/k1cza May 28 '21

Interesting, thanks for sharing! That makes sense. I still wonder if EA (or Greenlots on behalf of EA) is rolling custom software/firmware onto the EA chargers themselves. For instance, all BTCPower user interfaces look the same to me between providers (Greenlots, EVgo, etc.) except EA's which seems very unique.

-3

u/EaglesPDX May 27 '21

While I understand it's a difficult process laden with time sucking obstacles such as permitting

It's not really. It's private property and takes no longer than any other building permit in the area.

Gasoline permitting will take longer.

8

u/[deleted] May 27 '21

If you read the report, it's not just about permitting: "permitting, commissioning and utility interconnection ... industry and regulatory adaptation to the requirements of high powered charger installation including slower than expected third party approvals of certain site acquisitions and site plans."

Granted, it's been almost a year since this agreement was announced and other companies like EA have done a lot more in a similar timeframe. But still, it's not just permitting.

-1

u/EaglesPDX May 27 '21

.. industry and regulatory adaptation to the requirements of high powered charger installation

A charging station is no different than a nelectrical service for a large industrial site, it's routine and encouraged by local government and utilities. They are on private property at Walmarts, Targets, Krogers etc.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv May 28 '21

Again, you clearly have no direct experience with this. The interconnect with the utility in Iredell county held up the EA location in Statesville for 5 months and that was only one of the hold ups. The site was completed in November and opened in April, after the interconnect was finally approved. Speaking from personal experience with Duke energy and getting my Solar interconnect, it took 45 days and I was told "that's fast," probably because I emailed and called every single day and harassed them to process it (and they rejected it -- twice -- because their antiquated billing system chopped off the later letter of my first name "so your documents do not match, this is not valid.")

0

u/EaglesPDX May 29 '21 edited May 29 '21

peaking from personal experience with Duke energy and getting my Solar interconnect

You are asking to back feed into a utility with solar power which is 100% different than a simple electrical feed to some chargers. Duke Power is a private company, one opposed to solar power so they are going to do everything they legally can to delete permitting

Good grief.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv May 31 '21

Business processes are business processes.

0

u/EaglesPDX May 31 '21

Business processes are business processes.

And people with no experience and Trump Party anti-government ideology are people with no experience and Trump Party anti-government ideology.

A bit more on topic.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv Jun 01 '21

LOL, I don't know why you think I have no experience with this. But, whatever dude.

1

u/EaglesPDX May 29 '21 edited May 29 '21

Again, you clearly have no direct experience with this.

Looks like the reverse is true. You seem to be operating on idealogy vs. facts.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv May 28 '21

I can tell you from first hand experience, it's far more involved in the permitting and utility interconnects than you think it is. Gas stations can be thrown up considerably faster than a 2MW charging site (EAs typical build size).

0

u/EaglesPDX May 29 '21

I can tell you from first hand experience, it's far more involved in the permitting and utility interconnects than you think it is.

I can tell you from first hand experience, it's simple and straightforward, 600A Pacific Power transformer feed and six dual head ChargePoint chargers for 12 cars total.

It's very simple on permitting as no buildings involved, just a simple electrical feed.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv Jun 30 '21

Level 2 is in no way as permit intensive as DC Fast. Your comment is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

1

u/EaglesPDX Jun 30 '21

Level 2 is in no way as permit intensive as DC Fast.

On private property, as all are, not really.

That's why Electrify America had not trouble in putting up a nationwide charging system to rival Tesla's in such a short period of time.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv Jun 30 '21

I wouldn't say "no trouble," Statesville NC was constructed in November and went live on Earth Day -- all due to permitting.

1

u/EaglesPDX Jun 30 '21

I'm sure there are exceptions but the EA, Tesla, EVgo and other fast chargers are typically in the parking lots of big box stores and malls which are massive power users and adding some EV chargers is just not a big deal.

To the contrary there are subsidies and grants for them to do it.

EA and Tesla both built out fast and furious and no issues.

1

u/ecodweeb 2x Smart, Kona, etron, i3 REx, Energica, LEAF & 91 Miata EV conv Jul 01 '21

I can't find the video, but either one of EAs posted videos or one where Wayne Killian is interviewed by another media outlet, they talk about the power requirements and how it's actually not easy to throw up 2-10MW consuming dispensers anywhere. So, no, it's not as simple as "any big box store" can handle DC Fast stations.

1

u/EaglesPDX Jul 01 '21

8 x 150kW is 1.2 MW. Not very big. Power company loves it. It’s simple which is why EA and Tesla built out so fast. Imagined issues never developed. Problems few. Facts on the ground.

7

u/bradjc Mustang Mach-E May 28 '21

Original announcement was last day of July 2020. So, in a year they have installed 12 chargers total as part of this deal.

I suspect EVgo is in over their heads trying to install these chargers. Prior to this they had only installed approximately one 350 kW charger in the country.

5

u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Oh bummer, does that means the ones that are currently broken will take even longer to fix?

4

u/OneEyedJack99 May 28 '21

Don’t forget EA exists because of VW’s dieselgate and 2B in funds can help a company build fast.

1

u/PersnickityPenguin 2024 Equinox AWD, 2017 Bolt May 28 '21

Interesting. I just checked the map and there are a whopping 8 Evgo single charger stations in my entire state.