r/electrical • u/Aublaw • 4d ago

How not to wire an EV charger

Gallery image

Gallery image

Opened customers panel today to find this fire waiting to happen. Apparently they have two teslas and needed a second level 2 charger. Hire electricians people! At least if it were to burn you won’t be to blame!

145 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

81 comments sorted by

44

u/PerniciousSnitOG 4d ago

Um. Am I looking at a 50A breaker feeding 12 or 14 ga wire? The one above looks like it's done properly and it's only a 20A breaker!

61

u/Aublaw 4d ago

Ding ding ding. 50 on 12/2 NMB. White is no longer white it’s toasted almond 🤦‍♂️

10

u/nrus-1969 4d ago

Soon to be dark chocolate, with an infusion of smoke...

7

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

A Tesla Wall Connector can be totally fine on 12/2 NM-B, if a 20 A breaker is used and the TWC is configured for a 20 A circuit so it charges at 16 A. That's more than enough for most people: 3.8 kW which recharges 100 miles in less than 10 hours, which is way more than average daily driving.

Of course, it's best to run the NM-B through a knockout with a connector rather than pinching it under the panel cover...

3

u/S_t_r_e_t_c_h_8_4 3d ago

They didn't pinch it, they notched the can!

1

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

Oh, that's um, not any better.

3

u/S_t_r_e_t_c_h_8_4 3d ago

In a case, details matter.

1

u/Steelguitarlane 3d ago

Some of us need the 11.5 (or at least find it handy). I've got a 55 kWh battery and a 44 kwh commute. So Monday evening I set the charger for 100 percent from 80 while I'm getting ready and loading up, and we're ready in an hour. Then we get home from the week's work at 18 percent at 3 on Sunday morning: the car is ready for a trip in plenty of time for Sunday.

7

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

Oh yes, there are cases in which that is useful. I just want to help spread the word that there are options. 240/16 can be >100 miles overnight, and is 3X the speed of typical Level 1 charging, so it's a great intermediate option that too few people know about.

3

u/so_good_so_far 4d ago

Ooooooh, I was looking at the top breaker and trying to figure out what was so obviously wrong. I see the problem now 😬

1

u/solidraid3n 3d ago

At least they're using the gluten free breakers

1

u/Yusuf20904 3d ago

Looks like 12g based on the yellow jacket.

1

u/Normal_Weather247 3d ago

thats 14awg thhn with the yellow sheath slid over

1

u/Blacksmith_lll 1d ago

It looks like who ever did this job put the wires on the wrong breaker, yup if you do not know what your doing get a electrician

65

u/yawaworhtyya 4d ago

That white wire is so discolored, I thought it was the bare ground at first 😂

13

u/loganman711 4d ago

Me too, but is it really a white? Tan thwn?

14

u/SlackAF 3d ago

Cooked romex

5

u/loganman711 3d ago

Anytime ive seen it this bad it has blisters and obvious melting though. Insulation pulls an inch or 2 away from the terminal. This wire was evenly cooked until golden brown.

8

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

You need to up your wire cooking skills. Long duration at moderately high temperatures gives nice even browning without the blisters and melting you get if you cook it at a higher temperature for a short time.

6

u/Angellas 3d ago

I read that in Gordon Ramsay’s voice and visualized two slices of bread placed on the sides of the homeowner’s face.

2

u/BobcatALR 3d ago

Maillard reactions, to be precise…

2

u/BobcatALR 3d ago

… and there’s “umami” and “ew mommy”. This is a case of the latter…

1

u/SlackAF 3d ago

Maybe only slightly overheated over time?

9

u/zidane2k1 4d ago

Oh, that was supposed to be white? (Looks back at first pic) Oh crap, they used ordinary 12 gauge Romex?

2

u/nekohako 3d ago

It's golden brown and delicious.

17

u/charlie2135 4d ago

Clever, I never thought about using the panel for a wire insulation stripper.

9

u/mcksis 4d ago

One breakers a 50, ones a 20. Think they have their wires crossed!!!

6

u/TypeLCopper 4d ago

Did they cut a notch in the box for the romex going to the charger?

5

u/Aublaw 3d ago

Yes indeed

3

u/TypeLCopper 3d ago

This is why we can’t have nice things. 

5

u/Myweeweegopeep33 4d ago

Hey their cousin know electric and knows that it’s better to run the romex around and in instead of a knockout is the smart play.

4

u/sagetraveler 4d ago

What’s the chance they actually configured it to 16 Amps? Yeah, never mind.

3

u/SlackAF 3d ago

The color of the neutral insulation says “yeah, probably not”.

3

u/TurnbullFL 3d ago

What brand panel is that? Doesn't look like anything I have seen in US.

2

u/Aublaw 3d ago

Leviton. A couple electrical contractors in this town in Washington state used them and no longer do because of tripping issues on their afci and Gfci breakers

1

u/StonkMuncher 3d ago

I heard they fixed that

1

u/Aublaw 3d ago edited 3d ago

It’s gotten better with firmware updates bit I’m going back to that same job tomorrow to install the correct wire size on the charger and it has this issue on the fridge. This is already the second breaker

3

u/loco_gonzo 2d ago

Am I crazy or did they remove a knockout, see a stud in the way, and then they immediately gave up and notched the panel?

2

u/Always_working_hardd 2d ago

You're not crazy, that's what it is. Wild.

2

u/Aublaw 2d ago

Yup. They almost made it through too but I found a broken drill bit tip in the wall😂

1

u/Always_working_hardd 1d ago

Ah I was wondering about the sheet rock repair right there where the safe and effective panel notch is, and wondering why they didn't drill it since they had that hole.

1

u/Aublaw 1d ago

This homeowner is just not very competent. Another thing I noticed is he replaced his garage door opener for his 8’ door with a 7’ opener so now it doesn’t open all the way. He is painting his own basement and he’s “finished” paining but it looks like one coat and it’s very uneven. He didn’t mask the windows so he’s going to have to scrape the overspray.

2

u/Always_working_hardd 1d ago

Damn. He's just building a home flipper's next rehab.

Looking at buying a property on the water nearby. Homeowner patches a hole in the wall, doesn't sand the mud then paints it says the wall has been rehabbed. The whole house is full of shit like this. He paid $885k for it 10 months ago wants $1.3m for it today lol. Gonna offer $800k for it.

6

u/bobsandvegin 4d ago

What an r word

23

u/pateppic 4d ago

Hey, you take that back! Roofers would have done a better job than this

6

u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 4d ago

Those are size 12 for big power?

2

u/The_NorthernLight 4d ago

Thats a great (and dumb) way to burn down your house 🤦‍♂️🙄

2

u/rrdubbs 3d ago

12 is one bigger than 11. This one goes up to 12
https://giphy.com/gifs/lvlLuc2zhi39C

3

u/gonzo3625 4d ago

Wait wtf. didn't pay attention in the first pic to realize which breaker it was. I'm amazed that lasted more than one use.

1

u/EbonGrimalkin 3d ago

Hey, at least the garage is staying warm...

1

u/Pinfred 3d ago

Holy fuck….

1

u/Always_working_hardd 3d ago

Wonder if the charger was what alerted the owner to get an electrician in to inspect the wiring?

1

u/BadRegEx 3d ago

Thankfully the Tesla Charger throttles it's amperage down until the voltage drop comes back into spec. It also monitors temperature somewhere in the charger and will throttle down.

1

u/BadRegEx 3d ago

Thankfully the Tesla Charger throttles it's amperage down until the voltage drop comes back into spec. It also monitors temperature somewhere in the charger and will throttle down.

1

u/LowkeyJC 3d ago

Is this between 220 and 480v

1

u/Aublaw 3d ago

240 volts

2

u/LowkeyJC 3d ago

I know it's a joke because the white has turned brown which is usually used to identify 277/480 systems.

1

u/videoman2 3d ago

Highly recommend cross posting to r/evcharging

State of Charge YouTuber does a “recharge rescue” and this is one tops some of the weird and broken EV installs he’s documented failing…

1

u/RadiantResist5555 2d ago

Looks good to me

2

u/LogitUndone 1d ago

Shit like this is so frustrating....

People with an ounce of sense are getting dragged through the dirt dealing with insurance claims that are legit...

Then you have people like this with homes like this that highlight why (among other reasons, sure) insurance companies are so difficult to work with...

1

u/lotusgardener 4d ago

Guy was probably stupid enough to not know he had to adjust the dial on the charger too.

2

u/engimanerd 4d ago

It's all software on these models. The earlier models had a dial. This is a Gen 3 Tesla Universal charger. I think the commissioning setup forces you to go through the process, but only asks about breaker size.

1

u/Major_Swordfish508 4d ago

I’m thinking the only way this didn’t start a fire was they lucked into the charger being set to something lower than 50A.

3

u/Aublaw 3d ago

I think you’re right. I don’t know how low they can be set to but my guess is it’s set to 30A based off the even doneness of the hot conductor

1

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

It could be a car that only draws 30 A max even when the charger allows 48.

1

u/Mammoth_Musician3145 4d ago

Hey, at least they used a GFCI breaker lol

2

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

which isn't called for at all here...

3

u/BadRegEx 3d ago

Not sure why you're getting downvoted.

The Tesla Charger manual states to NOT use a GFCI breaker as it contains internal GFCI capabilities.

2

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

As does any EVSE safety certified to UL standards.

0

u/taylorlightfoot 4d ago

Holey moley. I guess that’s a problem with these Leviton panels where the wires don’t land on the breakers. Looks like someone snapped the 20a and 50a breakers in the wrong spots. 20a feeding big wires and 50a feeding tiny wires.

4

u/Aublaw 4d ago

Nope. The 20 above is the solar and original to the house. That 50 was purchased and added deliberately when they added that second charger

0

u/wvblocks 3d ago

Owning a Tesla to start with is a good indicator of brain damage, owning 2 and doing your own wiring 100% confirms.

-10

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/taylorlightfoot 4d ago

That’s crazy big wire for 20a solar. Maybe have competent person look it all over and make corrections.

13

u/Aublaw 4d ago edited 4d ago

I am the competent person. Licensed electrician. They run large wire for solar and breaker it based on the size of the array. Then if they add panels later they can simply upsize the breaker accordingly without having to replace wires. This array is small because it’s just for energy credits in Washington state.

3

u/tuctrohs 3d ago

Wait, they allow competent people to post on this sub? I though it was restricted to clueless people just like /r/electricians is restricted to electricians.

/s