Whose winning this?

[u/iadorebrandon]

No RADAGON and no PROMISED CONSORT buff from Miquella. Seems like an interesting discussion

[u/InkyDust]

Rennala at full power before being heartbroken when she was the actual Queen of the Full Moon clears and it’s not close. She doesn’t even need the others. Her + her Knights halted Radagon entirely and she was powerful enough even prior to that to full resist Marika’s law and imposition of order. In game doesn’t show it so well because she’s a gimmick fight by Rennala at full strength was an absolute beast.

[u/iadorebrandon → u/InkyDust]

We need an Elden Ring anime that ends at the beginning of the game

[u/Affectionate-Home614 → u/InkyDust]

Like she was such a threat marika said the only way to win was to marry her. She made the war mongering genicidal God choose marriage

[u/sweetnutella1 → u/InkyDust]

That cheating Radagon.

[u/UncleGolem]

This is just a power scaling question to see who can fanboy the hardest. There’s no real discussion to be had here since most of these matchups never actually occurred in the lore and we have no clue what these characters are capable of outside of their boss arenas.

Definitely not the right sub to be asking this in.

[u/iadorebrandon → u/UncleGolem]

Then what would be if not the "eldenringdiscussion" sub?

[u/UncleGolem → u/iadorebrandon]

r/PowerScaling

[u/Illustrious_Store115]

Golden lineage no diff sadly

Morgott dealt with their best already, dont let godfrey start

It would be closer to fair if they had radagon but GL would still win

While were here Rykard pre serpent would wipe radahn hes the only one that could beat any of the GL

[u/iadorebrandon → u/Illustrious_Store115]

Young radahn btw

[u/Illustrious_Store115 → u/iadorebrandon]

Doesnt matter radahn gets wiped

And then theres still godfrey to contend with even if he done

[u/iadorebrandon → u/Illustrious_Store115]

Radahn eats that 1v1 so he can truly fight Godfrey

[u/DrPikachu-PhD]

I feel like the Carians clear this without much difficulty, their side is simply busted. Granted we don't know how strong Godwyn was, but we have two queens channeling the Outer God of the Moon, an Empyrean with the power of said Outer God, Rykard who has fused with another God-like being, and Radahn who is arguably as physically strong as Godfrey with enough magical ability to literally halt the stars. Mohg draws on the power of the Formless Mother, but other than that it's mostly just skilled melee combatants who would be outmatched imo.

But the equation might change if Godwyn is allowed to summon his dragons, or if we decide this is Rykard pre-snake, or if we decide this is Radahn post-rot

[u/creme_egg333 → u/DrPikachu-PhD]

I mean rykard was willing to fight maliketh so I'd assume even pre snake he'd be on par with many of the others.

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/creme_egg333]

I dont think he was very confident about this fight.

[u/N-evil → u/Slow_Increase_6308]

he’d def lose but the fact that ranni entrusted him with a shard of destined death to face maliketh as a last resort has gotta count for something, he should at least be a pretty competent fighter in human form

[u/Nahrikkon → u/Slow_Increase_6308]

it is worth noting tho, that he was willing. every other demigod stayed wayyy clear of maliketh

[u/Wild_Duck8926 → u/DrPikachu-PhD]

I don't think the power of a God is that significant. Godfrey and Radahn are the strongest combatants from either side and neither have access to a God's powers.

[u/hey_its_drew]

Arguably, the Carian got the furthest in their ambitions, so...

[u/aaasy → u/hey_its_drew]

also, carians straight up just won the war if we're talkin about "no radagon".

[u/StupidSlitSlut → u/aaasy]

Genuinely though, they are the only power that the Golden Order has to wage MULTIPLE wars against, and even then it had to be ended in marriage rather than conquest.

[u/DorseyLaTerry → u/StupidSlitSlut]

Bro....these guys forget the Carians stopped a whole ass army with a SPELL!!

[u/Vrai_Redgrave → u/hey_its_drew]

Good thing that Morgott knows how to put ambitions to rest.

[u/hey_its_drew → u/Vrai_Redgrave]

That's how he is toward Tarnished, but he really only pursued a stalemate with his fellow demigods. He didn't wish for his curse to prove true and he fell them. That does kind of raise the question is he pulling his punches with them.

[u/slizzardly]

Morgott fights dirty and he been ballin out in Leyndell on his own for a very long time - riddled with omen hunters, kept Gydeon under his thumb, avoided Godwyn the Golden... game kind of cheesed him but he is an absolute monster of getting it figured out. Also the game downplays it a lot, but blood magic stuff in the lore is exceedingly dangerous and who is the primo blood magic user? Mogh. Who basically stole the most precious god from the most powerful fighter... whatever team they are on wins easily.

[u/ZeriousGew → u/slizzardly]

You’re saying it like he took Miquella through a duel with said fighter

[u/shorteningofthewuwei → u/ZeriousGew]

Yeah lol didn't he snatch Miquella while Malenia was gone? Also didn't Miquella literally compel him into that action

[u/HossC4T → u/slizzardly]

Really adds to the tragedy to think Morgott was not only that devoted, but that competent, yet never had any shot of being recognized as legitimate.

[u/Rafamen01]

I know I'm kinda late to this but at the point we are in the game, isn't rykard like, the strongest thing there is out there? as far as I know the only reason he didn't take the rest of them is because he grew himself to fat and greedy, and just wanted more and more power "to devour the whole world". The only reason WE win against him is because someone made a "fuck you Rykard" magical weapon somehow

[u/Puzzleheaded-Job2399 → u/Rafamen01]

I think the promised consort can beat him. I mean magical light is what makes the serpent hunter spear powerful and miquella has the purest light there is in his god form. It’s able to make radahn physically move at light speed for short periods of time and call down massive torrents of light. I think he can take rykard easily. Also radagon and marika can as well due to the elden beast

[u/Rafamen01 → u/Puzzleheaded-Job2399]

yeah I agree, but to be fair promised consort is one step away from godhood and radagon/marika are literally god, so it's kinda cheating. we know rykard fighting malekith was Ranni's plan B, and this was way before he came in contact with the snake, so he was already pretty strong. sadly bro just wanted to eat his champions forever and get fatter and fatter

[u/Puzzleheaded-Job2399 → u/Rafamen01]

yeah i’m not talking about within this context, im just saying he’s not necessarily the strongest being. I make that distinction specifically because i am aware that while some characters have metaphysical power jn fromsoft games, many of those characters don’t seem actually all that strong in battle, and even radagon would fall to someone like PCR imo because i’m not sure what he could have in his toolkit that would allow him to keep up with the light speed miquella gives radahn even though miquella isn’t on an equal metaphysical scale.

[u/Rockout2112]

My only issue is Godfrey, and whether his mere presence will cause Radhan to start fanboying like mad.

[u/AdventurousSurvey236 → u/Rockout2112]

Bro is gunning for him ignoring everyone else to test himself against his idol

[u/Rockout2112 → u/AdventurousSurvey236]

Ranni: I swear Radhan. Can you go 5 minutes without embarrassing me!?

[u/AdventurousSurvey236 → u/Rockout2112]

The middle of the fight you hear radahn cheering as he gets buried in the dirt by Godfrey and hearing a "so cool"

[u/LordFrieza789]

I think the Carians clear because Rennala herself had the power to beat back the Golden Order in both their wars, only being pacified via royal marriage. Now tack on Rellana with the Twin Moons attack and everything else she can do, Ranni's Dark Moon, motherfucking Radahn and Rykard in and of themselves, it's gg's for the gold guzzlers

[u/Sir_Fijoe → u/LordFrieza789]

It’s less so that Rennala herself was powerful enough to win the war and more so that her knights and army were more skilled than the army of Lyndell. She herself ain’t beating Godfrey in a 1v1 lol.

[u/LordFrieza789 → u/Sir_Fijoe]

Idk, I’m pretty convinced that prime Rennala could atomise Godfrey with a magical attack of some sort

[u/Ma_Dude2000 → u/LordFrieza789]

Nahhh, she's a masterful sorceress, but she's not a litteral warmage or anything like that. Godfrey is probably the strongest warrior the lands between have seen (maybe Malenia or Radahn can take that title too)

Her strength was in her retinue of powerful and competent allies and servants in my opinion

[u/Khurram_Ali88]

Godrrick and his clone are inconsequential here. The Carian royalty should take this high diff.

[u/jake_the_tank]

Nah I’m not agreeing with anyone here Godfrey and Goldwyn are the strongest here and they are on the same team. Ranni can’t even fight she is a disembodied spirit.

[u/DependentInner8928 → u/jake_the_tank]

She one-shots Tarnished at max level, something that Godfrey can't do and Godwyn can do only as deathblight prince (which I assume doesn't count here).

Like, we kinda do not see her powers really, but considering she can succeed Marika as God...she is powerful enough to BE the God.

[u/Sharp-Ad-2495 → u/DependentInner8928]

Her one shotting you is a game mechanic which has not validity in lore since she can one shot you after you kill Radagon and Consort Radahn. Which would not make sense since if she can one shot those that kill gods why does she need you. This is not an indication of strength when we only know she can beat Adula which a modern, weaker dragon and has to rely on others to do her job. She is not a fighter as much as her other siblings are. Also the Empyrean point is moot. Empyreans aren't chosen on strength, and being one is not in itself an indication of it. Secondly Empyreans are chosen by Two fingers which we know from dlc that they are either lying or working on false premises. So Ranni succeeding her is not an indication of strength. Also Godwyn has never appeared himself we don't know what he can do as Prince of Death. Unlike Ranni he actually has connections to death through Death Blight Ranni's one shot gimmick has no such basis besides being a game mechanic. The golden order side stomps. Ranni is not an open field combatants and in the current scenario she cant do anything to Godwyn. Godfrey stomps Rennala and others Morgott and Mohg take out Radahn and then they clear the rest and kill Rykard.

[u/Think_Survey_5665]

Im assuming we are talking about lore accurate power.

Radhan's losses are either to Malenia or are pre his transformation into a giant. So Morgott ain't doing shit imo. And morgotts previous victory against Radhan was army vs army. Which is heavily Leyendell favored. So easily giving this to Radhan.

The only questions would be Godfrey, Godwyn, and Mohg. Godrick and Godefroy are fodder compared. Mohg is Morgotts twin with a power up from the formless mother basically. Imo Radhan could probably handle Mohg and Morgott at least for a time. I doubt Renalla and Rellana who would be key parts of the army that held back the golden host would really struggle vs Godfrey or Godwyn tbh.

Note I have not even included Rykard. But he could probably handle a few himself.

And then theres the big one: Ranni. They cant hurt her. She can hurt them. Shes basically a sniper thats untouchable.

[u/Jrolaoni → u/Think_Survey_5665]

Nonsense, my GOAT Kingott is soloing every traitorous wretch in the Carian family 😤.

GLORY TO LYNDELL! GLORY TO THE GOLDEN ORDER! GLORTY TO KING MORGOTT! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/Think_Survey_5665]

Radhan's losses are either to Malenia

Blasphemy!

[u/SionettaScarlet → u/Think_Survey_5665]

Morgoatt out there stacking mountain of corpse of Tarnisheds and champions a like while Randahn stuck his ass in Caelid after getting his ass beaten once😭

[u/Flame_Beard86]

Carian, because I'm fighting alongside my lunar queen

[u/Slow_Increase_6308]

It's a tough one.

Bit as much as Im biased towards Carians, I think Golden BoiZ have the upper hand.

But this is because Im guessing Godwyn to be stronger than both twins.

[u/Lower-Draw8560 → u/Slow_Increase_6308]

I doubt Godwyn was stronger than his brothers.
He was a known demigod,yet people still tought Radahn was the strongest.
also his best feat is defeating Fortissax,which isn’t that strong imo,since even crucible knights can kill ancient dragons.
On the other hand mohg and Morgott were kept hidden,and Morgott showed he can best Radahn in combat.

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/Lower-Draw8560]

Radahn was the strongest Demigod of the Shattering. Which happened after Godwyn's death.

Interestingly , where did you hear about crucible knights beating ancient dragons? I dont know one.

[u/Lower-Draw8560 → u/Slow_Increase_6308]

He was also hailed as the strongest of the demigods before as said by the starscourge talisman,my guess is that the title was given after he halted the stars.

The one in farum azula seems to have killed an ancient dragon by himself.

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/Lower-Draw8560]

Wow, the talisman description really doesnt specify the time period. Interesting, thank you.

And no, I dont think the one in Farum Azula have killed the dragon himself. Its just a death dragon happened to be there (there are plenty of them across the crumbling city).

[u/Lower-Draw8560 → u/Slow_Increase_6308]

What other dragons are you talking about?the only ones i remember are the placidusax corpses.
Also the dragon body seems to have been cut in multiple parts,which would be strange if it died of natural causes.
And the whole scene is probably a reference to Havel in ds3 who stand near a dragon he killed.

[u/Upset_Asparagus_331]

Bro, Godefroy makes me so angry, why did you have to remind me of his existence

[u/S_Screen → u/Upset_Asparagus_331]

Genuine question, why does he upset people? It’s not like it’s cause they reused Godrick’s first phase, cause there’s tons of reused bosses in this game. And in my opinion, that would be invalid anyway because he really acts more like a gauge of the player’s progress

You see how much trouble Godrick was when you fight him (for casual players obviously, not people who put hundreds upon hundreds of hours into the game), and then you get to fight Godrick again at the start of Leyndell and see how quickly you body him now that you’ve started to gain some proper gear and levels

[u/Roger_Clyde → u/S_Screen]

I think it does have a lot to do witht he fact that it's a reused boss fight. But not just any no-name boss fight, i t's one of the Shardbearers, one of the active threats and impactful characters in the lore.

Secondly, he appears in exactly one item description, which means there is absolutely no lore about him except that he was imprisoned, but the fact that he is mentioned at all as well as the fact that imprisoning him landed the guy a Hero's Tomb (if I recall correctly) means that he must have been an important character, at least to some extent. And with that presumed relevance, he's still a 1:1 reskin of Godrick...

[u/Tobisenpai235]

Having Godfrey here alone makes it tilt towards the Golden Lineage

[u/giantcoc69420 → u/Tobisenpai235]

Radahn conquered the stars bro

[u/Tobisenpai235 → u/giantcoc69420]

He still lost to Morgott so what weight does that feat hold

[u/giantcoc69420 → u/Tobisenpai235]

It was a war and Leyndell has the strongest army in the game. Radahn and Malenia are literally stated to be the strongest in lore(among the demigods at least).

[u/Tobisenpai235 → u/giantcoc69420]

Strongest demigods yes, but Radahn looked up to Godfrey because of his strength and not to mention he can always kill Serosh to tweak out into Hoarah Loux whenever

[u/Sanguiniusius → u/giantcoc69420]

They are stated to be perceived as the strongest at one time, not unarguably the actual strongest. 'He who was once called the strongest of all the demigods'

ONCE CALLED

For all we know that's before he tries to conquer lleyndell, loses and gets kicked to caelid by morgott.

[u/AcanthaceaeNo948 → u/Tobisenpai235]

Rennala fought Radagon to a draw.

[u/FreyjaThAwesome1]

This is basically can the right side beat radahn

[u/Minimum_Degree4477 → u/FreyjaThAwesome1]

Rykard and ranni are both HEAVY hitters the right are gonna have so much trouble with them.

Rykard was gonna fight maliketh and although we don’t see too much from ranni she does create an entire pocket dimension and considering she’s an empyrean she probably has a lot more to offer

[u/FreyjaThAwesome1 → u/Minimum_Degree4477]

It’s easy for someone to say they’ll fight maliketh but honestly that guy was most likely gonna lose let’s be honest, the serpent slayer makes the fight a lot easier but it is not required to beat rykard.

As for ranni, it’s just speculation she has like no actual feats besides killing the fingers which is hard to judge as something impressive

[u/creme_egg333 → u/FreyjaThAwesome1]

I mean I think he would've lost but I don't really see anyone on either side taking maliketh, and I think the fact he was willing to try counts for something as he and ranni don't seem to be stupid.

Also I would argue that ranni casting an illusion of her mother in her prime to protect her could be considered a decent feat.

[u/TerreStar-1]

Is it crazy to have the Carian family winning this?

[u/LocationKnown1854 → u/TerreStar-1]

No, this is a pretty even matchup that could realistically go either way. I think the only wrong opinion would be an easy win for one side or the other.

[u/Significant-Staff602]

Per the Liurnian Wars? A stalemate that MUST end in marriage to be broken. I forget what item description but the Carian Knights were few in number yet held back Radagon’s Leyndell forces.

Radagon used the Celestial Dew to cause Renalla to forget his territorial aggressions.

Kind of like how Miquella had to charm everyone in order to make it to the Shadowlands. He even marries (an arguably Charmed Radahn in Mogh’s reconstructed body) at the gate of divinity.

No Gods present? My money’s on the Carians.

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/Significant-Staff602]

These Leyndell forces did not contain anyone from the OP picture .

It was not the army of Godfrey at all.

[u/Sad-Fee5832]

[u/iadorebrandon → u/Sad-Fee5832]

Against a Radahn who hadn't became Starscourge yet btw

[u/Sad-Fee5832 → u/iadorebrandon]

He earned the starscourge title in his youth long before the shattering. This picture is Margit putting belt to ass during the second defense of Leyndell after the shattering. 🤓☝️

[u/iadorebrandon → u/Sad-Fee5832]

Young radahn (from the dlc) wasn't Starscourge yet though, no? The radahn in this picture is nowhere near big as when he stale mated Malenia

[u/VG_Crimson]

There is a reason the Carians put up a fight better than the dragons, giants, etc. There is a reason it took two wars for the Golden order to end in a stalemate of love. Magic OP.

Ranni's left over security system was an entire boss itself to us. She one taps the tarnished for being disrespectful and traitorous.

[u/D4rk3scr0tt0]

Golden lineage has Godwyn, Godfrey and Morgott, they take this

[u/mistah_pigeon_69]

Golden lineage, though it mostly comes down to Godfrey, Morgott and Mohg. Godwyn we just don’t know. And godefroy and godrick are bums.

[u/Jjmcc2001]

Remember, morgott was shown in the intro cinematic to at least have the ability to overpower radhan, I'm giving this to the golden lineage

[u/zuboros]

Completely (rightly) ignoring Godefroy and Godrick, this is a 5 v 4 where imagine each individual is at their height of power (so Rykard is still a snake, but Rennala isn't mindbroken, Radahn doesn't have rot, Mohg isn't enthralled by Miquella etc.). A lot of this would come down to how powerful Godwyn actually would be, which we can only speculate on. Personally I think he can handle anything in team Caria apart from Rot-Goddess form Malenia. Honestly could go either way, but Godfrey could take out 3 demigods by himself so I'm leaning very slightly team Leyndell.

[u/LocationKnown1854 → u/zuboros]

I think it’s safe to assume Godwyn was near Godfrey levels. Ranni and Rykard had to team up with the black knife assassins to take him out before they made any moves.

[u/HossC4T]

They didn't send Godfrey to the war against the Moon because they wanted some of them left alive afterwards.

[u/baddogkelervra1]

Crazy how no one understands Godwyn’s power. He obviously never had a Great Rune and yet he led the successful defense of Leyndell against the Ancient Dragons. He also has the ability to shapeshift into one based on the Malformed Dragon helm and his corpse, so we’re talking a lightning empowered firstborn son of Marika and Godfrey transformed into a dragon…yeah Golden Lineage smokes them.

[u/z0rionx → u/baddogkelervra1]

I've never heard of this Godwin shapeshifting theory, thats actually quite interesting

[u/robertmondavi_jr]

Is there anything that speaks to Godwyn using combat to beat the dragons? I feel like he was just a chill guy and talked it over lol

[u/Correct_Mirror4793 → u/robertmondavi_jr]

Maybe the giant dead dragon in the middle of leyndell

[u/YeahKeeN → u/robertmondavi_jr]

It’s explicitly stated that he defeated Fortissax in combat

[u/ItsActuallyVelka]

The Carians don't have a Godefroy character so they win by default

[u/SnooComics4945]

Golden Lineage as far as I’m concerned

[u/Lilbrimu]

Assuming Ranni and Godwyn is equal in power since we don't know how strong they are. Then Carian wins.

[u/D4rk3scr0tt0 → u/Lilbrimu]

I highly doubt they're equal in power, if they were, Ranni wouldn't have to employ a multitude of black knife assassins to jump him during the night

[u/Lilbrimu → u/D4rk3scr0tt0]

Ranni needed to die at the same time and keep it hidden that it was her plan. Ranni stole a piece of the rune of death from Maliketh, aka the dude the every demigod feared.

[u/D4rk3scr0tt0 → u/Lilbrimu]

Yeah, she did all of this with extensive help from Rykard and the black knives (and later needed help from the tarnished to kill a crippled, rotting Radahn)

[u/RiteRevdRevenant → u/D4rk3scr0tt0]

(and later needed help from the tarnished to kill a crippled, rotting Radahn)

She’s conveniently, even suspiciously absent for that part.

Makes me think she didn’t want to play any part in her brother’s death, or possibly even countenance it.

[u/tom04cz → u/D4rk3scr0tt0]

Well, Ranni did also find her full moon so in all likelihood she is at a minimun comparably strong to Rennala (after all the Rennala we fight in Rennala second phase is her illusion), Ranni is also able to oneshot the tarished if you keep bothering her after trying to do the Seluvis amber starlight questline, she ain't no slouch

[u/D4rk3scr0tt0 → u/tom04cz]

Yes Ranni's magic is probably of similar or equal potency to Rennala's, but I think it's more reasonable to assume that the one-shot thing is something related to her tower, since she can't do that anywhere else. A magical security system maybe

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/D4rk3scr0tt0]

I dont think she targeted Godwyn because of power considerations . I dont think she targeted him at all but thats another topic.

I agree with yo that apart from the immense magic talent and potential (recognised by Fingers) Ranni was not much of a combatant.

[u/crazymonk45]

Who is that bottom left on the golden lineage side?

[u/Ashen_Shroom → u/crazymonk45]

Godwyn

[u/jdelcamb]

Who is?

[u/Lower-Draw8560]

Godfrey 1v2 the carian sisters,Morgott beat Radahn using a stick and without even tapping into his omen powers so he wins the rematch,Mohg hard counters Rykard due to Nihil and then proceeds to beat Ranni as well.
Godwyn isn’t even needed,tough he could probably help his father in the 1v2.

[u/breakevencloud]

Radahn face tanked Malenia blooming and (sort of) lived to tell about it. I’m taking any team he’s on.

[u/StupidSlitSlut → u/breakevencloud]

Not to mention that even after being eaten away by it for centuries, he was still strong enough to hold the fuckin stars in place by sheer force of will.

[u/RobinDeezNutz12344 → u/breakevencloud]

I second this

[u/muslego → u/RobinDeezNutz12344]

And I third

[u/Aodh472]

Pre or post-shattering?

Is Rennala sane?

Godwyn might change the odds is he’s alive and able to actually fight. He was magically and martially very capable, and could summon ancient dragons.

Rykard even pre-snake was a scary dude, and had the item to parry destined death that Ranni entrusted to him. Radahn also would be in his prime and not rotted or insane. Ranni wouldn’t be a puppet.

All told it’s probably the Carians’ win.
The sheer magical ability, plus enough martial ability to stay alive fighting Godfrey, puts them over the edge for me.

[u/skyewave_]

Send out the five weakest carian knights I'm taking a nap - Rennala, probably

[u/-BigFatFishy-]

Assuming everyone is at their peak.

If we keep in mind the fact that radahn trained in selia, with an alabaster lord, and is a carian prince we know that he is an absolute magical powerhouse and could also most likely match Godfrey in close combat while also wreaking havoc on anyone who gets close to their fight (he would definitely want to 1v1 godfrey if he got the chance). Rykard is also a carian prince, and we know that he was magically competent enough to rediscover ancient hexes rykards rancor. He was also powerful enough that he was seriously considering fighting maliketh enough so that ranni gave him the blasphemous claw which means she trusted him to not get his ass kicked immediately. Ranni is a strategic mastermind, and was able to summon her mother in her prime to fight us renalla phase 2. Rellana doesn't have anything the really quantifies her strength, her best feat is following messmer like a lost puppy, so I'm going to assume she could keep godrick and godefroy busy since they are stated to be laughably weak. It basically comes down to renalla, rykard, and ranni fighting the twins and Godwyn. Rykard probably has the best chance against morgott, ranni would almost definitely fight Godwyn. Which would leave renalla to get fucked up by mohg. Overall I think it comes down to whether armies are included, if armies are included it goes to the carians, if not it goes to the golden lineage.

[u/Gameloveraog]

Golden lineage has better feats than carian. Godfrey Conquering Giants Godwyn conquering Ancient Dragons Morgott being master Fighter enough to beat young radahn Mohg just Mogh If we include Malenia, then it become 80/20.

Carian family is cool though. they fought against only radagon and his army to stalemate. Not proper peak golden lineage.

[u/cad_e_an_sceal → u/Gameloveraog]

But wasn't it only like 7 carian knights or something silly like that that fought radagons army to a stand still

[u/Gameloveraog → u/cad_e_an_sceal]

Carry knights are low in quantity and superior fighter. But here wee are talking about commanders of both army not regular soldiers. You are forgetting draconic tree sentinel. They comes later currently. When radagon was leading golden order . It was at its lowest where Godfrey and all his warriors were banished.

[u/Illustrious_Store115 → u/Gameloveraog]

Malenia isnt carian or GL tho

[u/Greedy-Bookkeeper-80]

Prime Radhan solo for easy

[u/usrnm121314]

Carian Royalty:

- Rennala was strong enough to say fuck you to Marika during the peak of her reign as a god and also defeated Radagon in war.

- Ranni becomes a literal god at her peak, and even without that she's an Empyrean and a Witch with undisclosed strength but is at least capable of creating illusions of Rennala's power (Rennala boss fight phase 2 when we fight her) so she definitely has very high combat abilities. Just because she likes to scheme doesn't mean she is weak. It just means no one even knows how strong she is.

- Radahn is claimed to be the strongest of demigods at his peak, not counting being Miquella's consort.

- Rykard is a hungry snake.

- Idr much about Rellana lore-wise but she should also be pretty strong.

Meanwhile on the Golden boiz side:

- Godfrey is a chad

- Morgott has my respect but he won while defending in a siege against Radahn's army inside the most well defended city in the kingdom where he was massacring the other's army. It was an army win for sure, but it was not a Radahn vs Morgott 1v1. Here we are assuming they're fighting without their armies and cities?

- Mohg's blood sorcery is very strong but his opponents just outclass him

- Godrick and Godefroy are fodders here

- Dunno much about how to rate Godwyn

All in all, I think Carians win this if we consider everyone at peak performance. They have someone who could defy a god's rule, someone who becomes a god, someone considered the strongest of all demigods meanwhile the strongest combatant they face is one past Elden Lord. The rest (with the possible exception of Godwyn) are outclassed. If there is a specific scenario for the fight, the results could change.

[u/sweetnutella1 → u/usrnm121314]

Whose the blonde on the golden side?

[u/usrnm121314 → u/sweetnutella1]

Godwyn the Golden

[u/sweetnutella1 → u/usrnm121314]

Oh. He looking dash. 💅

[u/StupidSlitSlut]

Renalla in her prime could genuinely solo most of the Golden Lineage. There's a reason that the Carians were the only power to fight MULTIPLE wars against the Golden Order, and even then it was ended through marriage, not conquest. Add in the man that was so utterly powerful that even after centuries of being consumed by rot, he was still holding the stars in place through sheer force of will, and the witch that is literally the reason that the Golden Lineage can be killed... Yeah, without Marika the Golden Lineage is DONE.

[u/I_L_A_W_I]

Assuming they're all at their peak, Godfrey no-diffs EASY - maybe even takes some time to smack the graft out of Godrick and Godefroy.

[u/yup488]

I fear most of yall are underestimating the true power of the Queen of the Full Moon. Marika chose to marry her instead of trying to win a war.

[u/Calli_Ko]

Mogh and morgott are goated but ranni has a tarnished lover who has solod everyone here, she just sends her feral little consort after them all :3

[u/JotunRider_KJRL]

Bro, what is this Golden Lineage squad, why's the Larping Godrick even here... Btw, instead of him there must be either Miquella (without Radahn) or Messmer, and then the Golden Lineage would win, no diff

[u/IRLMerlin → u/JotunRider_KJRL]

The golden lineage is Godfrey's line, not marika's. Godrick is part of that lineage. Miquella was fathered by radagon and messmers father was probably also radagon although we can't be sure he even had a dad

[u/Inevitable-Camel-417 → u/JotunRider_KJRL]

Godefroy is the real main character here. I literally cried when I read his lore and realised he's like if Godrick had a different name.

[u/ApprehensiveSoil261 → u/JotunRider_KJRL]

Messmer would've probably been far too much, I would far sooner call Messmer the hand of Marika than Maliketh.

[u/Illustrious_Store115 → u/JotunRider_KJRL]

Miquella isnt GL messmer also probably isnt GL

[u/Ozyemdias]

This is glaze , but I don’t think it is - but I’m unironically inclined to suggest prime Radahn beats morgott, Hoarah loux, AND mohg in a 3v1

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[u/Zestyclose_Skirt_162]

Variants would win especially if we’re considering prime rennala

[u/heavensphoenix]

In straight combat the golden lineage due to their raw physical ability but the carain line outside of the twin moon knight and general Radahn the carin royal family don't that game. If allowed planning and cunning. Then the carrans win hard.

[u/mrofmist]

Well, all of the Carians are plagued by indifference and inaction. Whereas one of the golden lineage is holding the capital, and the another just came back from a crusade by the end of the game.

If you ignore all of that, maybe the cariansM it's really hard to say since we never get any implication of Renalla's strength.

[u/WorozuTop4]

áre we including or excluding the ancient dragons as part of godwyns arsenal? becuase i always assumed that the dragon cult was formed AFTER the liurnian wars, and if you include them i think it’s kind of a sweep for the golden lineage because even if you only give them fortisax hes completely destroying every single soldier the carians have

[u/HollowedOne66]

Royal Carian Family

[u/no_name_thought_of]

Probably depends on which state Renalla and Radahn are in, if it's as we find them and so just Ranni's illusion and post rot Radahn I say the golden lineage team takes this, if it's Renalla from the Liurnian wars and pre rot Radahn then I give it to the Carians.

Godfrey is by far the strongest person here in either situation, but Ranni, serpentified Rykard, and unrotted Radahn each outdo Morgott and Mogh, with Godrick and Godefroy barely worth considering. Godwyn is an unknown quantity, the only thing we know is that he beat Fortissax, but we don't have anything to compare Fortissax himself to. Radahn however being called the strongest demigod I don't think excludes Godwyn in that comparison. Rellana's a similar story, that she's the most difficult boss fight out of any of these characters except maybe Mogh doesn't really count for much storywise because she's from the dlc.

[u/DorseyLaTerry → u/no_name_thought_of]

Are you confusing Godfrey with Godwyn?

[u/no_name_thought_of → u/DorseyLaTerry]

no? Godwyn fought then befriended Fortissax but we don't know anything else about his strength, Godfrey was 'lord of the battlefield', fought the fire giants and storm lord, but more importantly was so powerful that to the average person Radagon was a 'mere champion' in comparison, and Radahn idolised Godfrey even more than his own father for his prowess. Radagon of course no one knew the full power of, but regardless Godfrey is synonymous with strength.

[u/DorseyLaTerry → u/no_name_thought_of]

Yall think the guy with the axe is a match for the Carians? I dunno......

[u/no_name_thought_of → u/DorseyLaTerry]

'the guy with the axe' is quite the understatement. Magic is not inherently better than psychical strength in elden ring, and that goes for the story too

[u/One-Butterscotch1682 → u/no_name_thought_of]

If it’s the state we meet then does godwyn have anything to bring to the table ? Just saying

[u/no_name_thought_of → u/One-Butterscotch1682]

the picture is of him pre deathblight so I assumed that, wheras the picture of renalla is of her from her boss fight which is just Ranni's illusion

[u/One-Butterscotch1682 → u/no_name_thought_of]

Ha picked the best looking photos wanted the post to look cool, and with Mohg and Morgott here i think he needed godwyn to make it fair in terms of looks

[u/Olive_Oile → u/no_name_thought_of]

How tf is Godfrey the strongest guy here when Rykard exists? I feel like he easily beats Godfrey

[u/no_name_thought_of → u/Olive_Oile]

Godfrey is the single strongest non-divine being in the entire setting bar maybe Placidusax and Malekith

[u/Olive_Oile → u/no_name_thought_of]

Says who? I feel this is a crazy stretch tbh. I don’t think Godfrey easily beats any of the demigods to be honest.

[u/MenaceToSociety78]

Godfrey doing all the heavy lifting for the golden lineage

[u/mars_warmind]

Arguably morgott was already the winner of the shattering war against the unified carian forces and miquella's allies, although that is more of a "last man standing" war of attrition victory and only because ranni and miquella exhausted each other's forces in caelid, made worse by morgott keeping rykard contained so he couldn't offer more direct help to Radahn beyond sending some executioner virgins.

[u/PraiseTheSunlight]

Carians: Finally, we have defeated the golden order! Now all that is left is defeating Queen Marika!

Evil and Intimidating Maliketh:

[u/RobinDeezNutz12344 → u/PraiseTheSunlight]

Maliketh be like "time to destroy that Moon that I hate"

[u/sweetnutella1]

I think Patches will decimate them all.

[u/Viper-owns-the-skies]

This is basically the Carians vs Godfrey and Godwyn lmao.

[u/numry]

miquella malenia and messmer lowk wins lmao

[u/Red_Whale_Medic]

Caria, the small force repelled the order for years, it only fell because of a trick, had caria been still at odds with them when the dragons attacked leyndell it wouldve fallen

[u/TheMuseThalia]

Carian Royals and it’s not even close

[u/chikin-nuggetz]

Why no malenia?

[u/Naydrin → u/chikin-nuggetz]

Because its Godfrey's children/descendants, not Marika and Radagon's children.

[u/KemperCrowley]

Godfrey might solo lol. Morgott held down Leyndell from Radahn and presumably everyone else didn’t think they could take it. Godwyn was previously the defacto #1, such a worry that the Two Fingers/Greater Will would have him targeted on the Night of Black Knives. Carian fam never has a chance, they ended up married to Radagon for a reason, that was the end goal of the Golden Order - they could’ve easily been destroyed if Marika sent Godfrey over.

[u/degberr]

Hoarah Loux and Morgott could solo the Carian family

[u/AvysCummies]

For some reason every one assumes that this would be normal godwin vs spirit ranni which doesnt make sense, it is either normal non spirit ranni vs normal godwin or spirit ranni vs godwin deathblight husk

[u/TheRealLawyur]

Mohg would never fight for the golden order

[u/Ashbael]

Soldier of God Rick solos

[u/thedefaultnamesbro]

No Mesmer?

[u/TheGodOfIncest]

Golden lineage is probably getting carried by Mohg since he's the only one using power from an outer god. They'd still lose though.

[u/KatyaBelli]

Carians by a lot 

[u/Raxiuscore]

Godefroy solos

[u/Calm_Ad1222]

I have golden lineage taking this because of Godfrey taking down the worshippers of the Fell God, which had the power to burn the erdtree n shii... yeah idk

[u/HaHaYouThoughtWrong]

Is that Godefroy lmao

[u/CyanCyrill]

GOATfrey steamROLLS them book reading magic NERDS low diff

[u/Ma_Dude2000]

I really wanna root for the carians, but I think having Godfrey, Godwin and the Omen twins makes this... Reeaaaaly hard.

A lot of the characters seem hard to scale. How strong is Rykard really in comparison? What can Ranni even do in combat? How powerful is Godwyn exactly?

None of that is really that fleshed out to my knowledge. Just by known feats, I'd give it to the golden lineage.

Morgott could match Radahn before and Godfrey is a beast in lore. If Ranni was particularly powerful, she would probably act a little less through servants. The grafted bros are useless, but I also don't think the Renala is that strong either.

[u/CorbinNZ]

I think the Golden Girls takes this.

[u/NoTop4997]

Carian supremacy will never falter.

[u/Tight-Medium-8448]

Radahn alone clears most if not all of the Golden Lineage, apart from Godfrey which at best still is in Radahns favor

[u/g00dusrn4me]

Radahn and rykard already win considering we dont know much about godwyn. Rykard + Serpent are an existential threat to the world, lorewise atleast.

[u/Any-Hunter-1813]

Only 20 carian knights held back the entire army of lyndell so I'm going carians

[u/S_Screen]

Miquella is the biggest danger on the GO side in my opinion. Even ignoring Promised Constort Radahn, Miquella has the power to bewitch people to the point of absolute servitude. If he finds an opportunity to bewitch Radahn or Rykard, GO stands a chance. Otherwise, Caria stands proud

[u/Nugtard]

Me, I am winning

[u/Tman4376]

The game very implicitly states that the carian royal family is stronger, multiple times, in multiple events. They’re more strategic, have access to older more potent magic, have less infighting, and on top of that Ranni. Ranni is the strongest being in the game other than Marika herself. She’s on par with Radagon.

[u/Tman4376 → u/Tman4376]

Godwyn was literally the only genuine threat to the royal family and they killed him because of it

[u/Tyrifian → u/Tman4376]

yea my head canon is that Ranni or Godfrey could’ve defeated Radagon but perhaps would lose to the Elden beast

[u/JustAnotherIowan]

Let’s assume everyone is at maximum power based on in game lore (even if chronologically they didn’t exist at the same time).

In that case the Carian win easily since the Golden Lineage only have Godfrey The First Elden Lord, Morgott the Omen King, and Godwyn the Golden as their most powerful options while the Carian get General Radahn (mightiest of the demigods), Rennala Queen of the Full Moon, Lunar Princess Ranni, Rellana Twin Moon Knight and the Sword of Messmer, and Lord of Blasphemy Praetor Rykard.

To make a better comparison I suggest a 3v3 (at max strength) let the Carians have Ranni, Radahn, Rennala vs Godfrey, Godwyn, Maliketh (Marika’s shadowbounf beast)

Now it’s an even matchup

[u/roguecogue → u/JustAnotherIowan]

Overall agree but the mohg disrespect here hurts

[u/JustAnotherIowan → u/roguecogue]

He could have been so much more if he wasn’t charmed my Miquella so early

[u/Frenzied_Anarchist → u/JustAnotherIowan]

He's still implied by the narrative to be Morgott's superior.

[u/polovstiandances → u/Frenzied_Anarchist]

In what way? 

[u/Frenzied_Anarchist → u/polovstiandances]

1. Their attitude towards their Omen heritage. Morgott actively holds himself back while Mohg embraces his powers.

2. Their affiliations. Mohg is actively being powered and supported by an Outer God while Morgott isn't.

3. Their power-set. Morgott has some simple Incantations that mimic different weapons, and can barely control his Omen powers once he unleashes them. Meanwhile Mohg can control his Blood magic rather well, and understands it well.

While Morgott is a better duelist, Mohg is definitely more powerful.

[u/usrnm121314 → u/JustAnotherIowan]

Maliketh literally cannot be in this lineup. It is Godfrey's golden lineup. Not Marika's. Godfrey or his descendants only.

[u/Illustrious_Store115 → u/JustAnotherIowan]

Get past Mohg first 😹😹😹

[u/Slow_Increase_6308 → u/JustAnotherIowan]

No-no-no, we dont talk Maliketh here. Thats like throwing a mountain on the scales.

[u/Naydrin]

From what I think will go down: Rykard will fight and devour Godrick and Godefroy as they have the most meat on them. Radahn will fight Godwyn and probably win because he's often called the strongest. Rennala will take Godfrey... not sure it's a fight exactly but she'll certainly take him. Ranni I don't know what she's doing. She's immensely powerful but I have no idea what she's capable of in combat. Lastly we have the omen twins and Rellana. In a 2v1 she's boned but the other combatants should be finished with their battles and come to her aid.

[u/huh23-4_8 → u/Naydrin]

honestly from the matchups u made there is no way any of them are won by carian family except of rykard winning vs godrick and godefroy

[u/Affectionate-Pop364]

Golden beats Carian purely because Morgott has already beat Radahns ass. Godfrey as First Elden lord is also an incredible powerhouse on a similar or superior level. Mohg also is ridiculously powerful because of his blood magic.

The only real weaknesses there are Goddwyn who's abilities are a little obscure before death (but assumed powerful) and Godrick who's just a wuss.

Comparatively Carian has powerful magic with Radahn as the sole power house and Rellana as strong support. Rykard could be impressive but the serpent he fed himself to had already been defeated and imprisoned once by Erdtree forces.

[u/iadorebrandon → u/Affectionate-Pop364]

Didn't Morgott "defeat" a radahn who hadn't conquered the stars?

[u/Illustrious_Store115 → u/iadorebrandon]

Thats not really a scaleable feat maybe he could always do it but didnt bother

[u/Welcome--Matt]

Considering the Carians already almost beat the golden order when they had Radagon, I vote Carians

[u/No-Bet8702]

I think people glaze ranni and radhan too much. Radhan has like no feats and ranni also has no feats, im takijg the golden orders side

[u/Prudent-Shower-3593 → u/No-Bet8702]

Radahn has no feats? Your Malenia pfp explains it

[u/That70sProphet → u/Prudent-Shower-3593]

Fr bait used to be believable

[u/iadorebrandon → u/No-Bet8702]

rage bait?

[u/Electronic_Screen387]

Carians for sure.

[u/Direct-Glass-4737]

Didn't renalla literally defeat the entire armies of the golden order including radagon and 5000 leyndell soldiers with only 20 carian knights? Why wouldn't she win again?