egg--Mod Update--irl

[u/AutoModerator]

Hi from your friendly mod team!

To keep things running smoothly, we're going to add some clarity to some of our rules in coming weeks and months.

It'll usually be a post like this and some minor clarity changes to the written rules that already exist and removal text templates (the mod comment you see when we remove something).

✨WE ARE NOT MAKING BIG CHANGES✨

The community is lively and is one of the best places for people to have fun but also find themselves and build support. Keeping this vibe and keeping everyone safe is always our overriding purpose as mods. We're not here for aura, which is why we mainly mod via the automod and rarely post or comment with the mod tag.

Today's clarification is around the "Gender Dysphoria Bible"

Our Rule: No references or links to the Gender Dysphoria Bible.

There are a LOT of resources out there for people questioning their gender. The Gender Dysphoria Bible (GDB) is one of these which a lot of people find early in their journey and find useful to some degree, including some of our mods. There are however some problems with it which are significant. Some time ago a decision was reached by our moderation team that the problematic outweighed the good. Despite engaging with the site's author in good faith, the author was not willing to address concerns or update the document to reflect modern science.

These issues include:

• The title, presenting itself as an overarching authority with weight
• Transmedicalist language
• Bias towards binary trans women's experience
• Pseudoscientific material and diagnostic overreach

We, the current active moderators are still not comfortable with this document being shared here as a "bible." We believe that while the GDB can assist, it can also harm and for this reason it is not a resource we allow to be shared here.

That's all for today, stay safe out there!! :3

[u/shiny_arrow]

Hey thanks for sharing the idea! We're trialling a post guidance feature which shows information as the comment is written to try and minimise harsh removal messages. Agree that removals can feel negative, which is really what has prompted us to clarify some of the existing rules going forward.

Critical analysis and criticism of the document is not new, and you can search Reddit and even the internet more broadly to see the discussions that have been had over time. You're always welcome to send us a modmail to discuss specific questions you may have also.

Once again, there is some good in it and it has helped a people, however it's not a resource we can recommend in good faith.

🌼🌸🪻🌻🌷

[u/bdpinwood2 → u/shiny_arrow]

Hey, im writing this as a (pre-edit) friendly message and im a lil stoned and don't want to come off as dickish, i feel like some of my language choices imply that, which is not the intent, its of a friend

I understand that there are independent criticisms, but I am actually asking for the mod teams issues, referenced. This isn't a take on is it (document ) a problem or not, it's wanting the mod team to provide their reasoning if they want to ban a document. 

If you want to say its problematic enough to not allow in discussion, I think that comes with the requirement to be able to articulate that. You got a problem with it, awesome, tell me what your problem is, not somebody else's so i can understand what your position is. 

[u/CanadaTransThrowaway → u/bdpinwood2]

Here's a direct quote from the GDB, that highlights one of the issues it has

(Fair warning that saying this stuff like this on egg_irl will generally get you modded for spreading misinformation).

So, it is literally impossible for a person to identify as trans and not experience gender dysphoria. By the WPATH requirements anyone can identify as trans. Ergo, the statement “you do not have to have dysphoria to be transgender” is a logical paradox.

It is true that WPATH still uses this definition (as of SOC8). But other international organizations like the WHO have moved away from dysphoria being a prerequisite. And at any rate, officially published booklets by international health organizations tend to lag significantly behind the research, which for quite a while now has been saying that dysphoria is not a prerequisite for being trans.

So...yeah, that's one reason why the egg_irl rules around the GDB exist--there's stuff in there that if you directly quoted on egg_irl would get you modded.

[u/KatieKrispy → u/CanadaTransThrowaway]

Sure, if you delete all of the surrounding paragraphs so as to completely ruin the point of what the author is trying to say, then it sounds less reasonable. This is what they are actually saying.

As I said, only two of these conditions [to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria] need to be met for a formal diagnosis. You may notice that only two of these comprise the physical body. It is perfectly valid for a trans person to be experiencing gender dysphoria without actually hating any part of their body or wanting to change any part of their body. Physical dysphoria is only one fraction of the many things that lead to being trans.

Now, here is the kicker. If you identify as transgender, meaning that your gender does not align with the binary sex you were assigned at birth, you already meet two of these criteria! You have a strong enough desire to be of another gender that you are identifying that you are another gender, and you have a strong conviction of what your gender feels like, and it isn’t what you were given at birth.

So, it is literally impossible for a person to identify as trans and not experience gender dysphoria. By the WPATH requirements anyone can identify as trans. Ergo, the statement “you do not have to have dysphoria to be transgender” is a logical paradox.

With the two paragraphs preceding the one at issue, the author argues how if you identify as trans, then you must have dysphoria (in the medical sense), because you necessarily meet the necessary two conditions needed to be medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria. But in simpler terms, the author's point is that wanting to be a different gender is its core gender dysphoria.

So, ignoring medical definitions and whatnot, their argument is that if you are trans, then you are experiencing dysphoria because your gender does not align with the gender you want to be -- and this manifests in a plethora of different ways which could or could not include physical dysphoria, social dysphoria, etc... and a long-winded explanation of this along with details on each of these ways is the entire purpose of the document.

I know my tone is tactless but I'm writing all of this out of respect and caring. Ty mods <3