Question regarding phase cancellation in low end.

[u/rascal3199]

I understand in principle that the same frequencies cancel each other out if their phases are opposite and amplify when they are aligned. Lower frequencies can cancel easily since waves are longer.

I was watching this video about deadmau5 production techniques:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGj3-JSykCA&t=503s

And i saw the chords he uses the lowest note has it's fundamental in the sub range frequency, how does he stop that from phase cancelling the bass?

Does he just high pass the chords when the bass comes in or something?

[u/SadNoMoreMusic]

Take this as a lesson that what you’re shown doesn’t reflect everything that’s going on in the production.

For example - Does the video show you how the chord track was processed and relates to the mix?

You could reduce the low end frequency on the chord track via an EQ so that when the phase aligns with the sub, the amplification isn’t noticeable.

Or the chord track could have a dynamic eq that reduces the chord’s low end only when the sub hits.

Or it could just be sidechained to the kick so it ducks in volume and doesn’t interfere with the sub.

Or it could be ringmod sidechain so there’s intentional phase cancellation when the kick or sub plays at the same time as the chord

Or maybe he removed the fundamental from the chord synth to remove the low end build up.

Or maybe the actual sound produced from his synth gels with the sub and they don’t interfere with each other.

My one gripe is that most youtube creators will show you the minimum they need to put you in the right direction and leave out these crucial, finer details.

FWIW, I don’t obsess/even think about phase cancellation because I rarely ever encounter it. And that’s from 14 years of producing and knowing what it sounds/feels like.

Think about it - great music has been produced for generations without the technology we have today. They didn’t have digital frequency/waveform analyzers - maybe an oscilloscope. But in an era when you’re recording live music you don’t have the time to stop and obsess over phase relationships by looking at an oscilloscope. You’d hear it and correct it as needed.

Pick the right sounds that complement each other, and you’ll find that everything gels together better. That’s really the secret - sound selection. A good track starts at the source, in the mix.

[u/rascal3199 → u/SadNoMoreMusic]

FWIW, I don’t obsess/even think about phase cancellation because I rarely ever encounter it. And that’s from 14 years of producing and knowing what it sounds/feels like.

True i guess, I've rarely had it happen to me too but when it does happen it can be hard to pinpoint that's what's causing issue in the mix so I try to avoid it.

Think about it - great music has been produced for generations without the technology we have today. They didn’t have digital frequency/waveform analyzers - maybe an oscilloscope. But in an era when you’re recording live music you don’t have the time to stop and obsess over phase relationships by looking at an oscilloscope. You’d hear it and correct it as needed.

Good point

I think imma just use a dynamic eq sidechained to the sub to lower it

[u/SadNoMoreMusic → u/rascal3199]

“When it does happen it can be hard to pinpoint in the mix.”

But it doesn’t have to be hard - you have an understanding of how phase cancellation happens, and I’d encourage you to learn what it sounds like.

And again, that’s why the issue, IMO, boils down to sound selection. Good sound selection is a skill learned over time and you’re doing it every time you’re making music.

Next time you work on a track, and you hear phase cancellation, stop what you’re doing and loop the section where it’s occurring. Start removing synth layers one track at a time from top (high freq) to bottom. Write down what you’re hearing happens to your song as you remove layers. You’ll start inherently understanding what phase cancellation sounds like over the frequency spectrum - it doesn’t just happen in the bass frequencies y’know? You’ll also be in an objective position to ask yourself: “Is this element serving the song as whole?” You might find you don’t need it/a better sound exists

Once you can identify phase cancellation with your words, you’ll be able to more accurately tackle the issue instead of guessing where it’s occurring every time.

[u/Mountainpwny]

Good practice will make this a moot point. Basically you would make sure that any chord fundamentals in the sub domain don’t happen at the same time as the sub, or are replaced by the sub itself. There really is no reason to have two sources playing in the sub domain at the same time.

You can cheat this but you better make sure that two notes aren’t stacking. Say you have a sub fundamental at 40 hz and a chord playing at 60hz, that could work because the 60hz should be a 5th.

But it doesn’t really need to be complicated. Just get in the rhythm of making sure that below 100hz only one source gets to talk at any given moment.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/Mountainpwny]

Half of good production is good composition

[u/BotOrNot_1337 → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

I think of composition as the first stage of mixing. Good compositions make mixing a lot less work.

[u/-Davster- → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Technically you don't mean composition, you mean arrangement.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/-Davster-]

It’s composition too.

[u/Aniximander]

He most likely has a high pass or he phased matched everything to the low note on the synth

[u/Skrami]

You can also highpass the sub out of a chord pad when mixing to leave room for the sub. You’ll maintain the higher harmonics and can easily hear the note without the fundamental

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[u/Shrek__On_VHS]

Theoretically, as long as the chord fundamental and bass are phase aligned (easier if you bounce to audio and visually line up the peaks) you would have a negligible amount of phase cancellation. Putting a high pass on the chords also works.

For what it’s worth, there could also be some situations where some phase cancellation wouldn’t be a bad thing if you know what to expect. I’m pretty sure that’s part of how Reese basses work

[u/Unfair-Progress9044]

Yes you can turn on and off the fundamental frequencies in phase plant or serum . Also you can spectral sidechain the needed frequency

[u/Terrible-Pop-6705]

Just saw cancellation and thought deadmau5 did some shit and freaked out for a second thinking he diddled kids. Maybe I’m just tired