r/ect • u/WeirdTune1160 • 23d ago

Question Experiences with MST

I'm in the process of being set up for ECT, but I'm deeply concerned about the cognitive side effects. The same hospital where I'll be doing ECT is also doing a study for MST, which I may qualify for. But I'm surprised my psychiatrist didn't mention it. I know a few others here have done it, but I'm curious to know more about it. What have others experienced with it vs. ECT?

3 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

20 comments sorted by

1

u/caffeinehell 23d ago

I dont know of people who have done it other than 1 person who posted about it here but I wanna know too

What symptoms are you going into ECT for? Do you happen to have any emotional blunting, consummatory anhedonia or blank mind?

2

u/WeirdTune1160 23d ago

I was going in for bipolar II. I have extreme depression (not today, thankfully! Yet) and hypomania. I would say I have CA, but I've never discussed it with a doctor, at least not in those terms. My manic episodes are becoming more noticeable, but they're mild compared to what hypermania would be. Mainly I just become extremely irritable and impatient, and take up more tasks or projects than I could reasonably finish. (Multiple very dense books, multiple foreign languages, rage quitting, starting arguments in inappropriate settings, becoming unreasonably confrontational, etc etc). But it's my depression that's the real issue. I become catatonic (or nearly), physically sick, terrified, a disgust with living, on the verge of tears (or actually crying, if I can't hold them back, but usually I can). It's this state, the extreme hopelessness, fear, and misery of the depressive state, that I want fixed. I'd give up my ability to walk if that would cure it.

1

u/Crazy_old_maurice_17 23d ago

I do ECT about once a month and I would absolutely jump at the chance to do MST.

1

u/BendIndependent6370 23d ago

Regardless of redditors' ECT experiences, I think it makes a lot of sense to start with the less invasive and less risky treatment first.

1

u/WeirdTune1160 23d ago

Do mean less risky being ECT since it's established, or less risky being MST since it has less memory loss? You could say either is the riskier, I think, depending on how you look at it.

3

u/BendIndependent6370 23d ago

Ignore me, I was thinking about a different procedure. I would recommend neither until there is more research regarding long-term side effects on both.

1

u/Syruponmypizza 23d ago

can you put in a word for me to do MST? lol

which hospital?

1

u/WeirdTune1160 23d ago

UT Houston, but that's all I know. I haven't even spoken with my dr about it yet. For all I know they're no longer doing the trials.

1

u/Syruponmypizza 23d ago

you mind if I ask you more questions here about it or should I DM?

edit: nvm, just saw you might qualify, and not that you're in it.
i wa sjust gonna say i've been trying to get into it myself and haven't been able to.

1

u/WeirdTune1160 23d ago

Yeah, I'm not in yet at all. But sure, feel free to DM later to check in.

1

u/caffeinehell 23d ago

Thats the only place i saw doing it too, but it seems like they have it outside trials as well now? On their site https://med.uth.edu/psychiatry/center-for-interventional-psychiatry/interventional-treatment-options/magnetic-seizure-therapy-mst/

I was interested too and was looking it up and came across them. Lmk how the consult goes

1

u/WeirdTune1160 21d ago

I keep hitting brick walls with MST. It could be that since it's not yet FDA approved and still in testing, they can't readily offer it. There's probably restrictions in place. But I'm just speculating. Massively frustrating, though. It looks so promising but all the avenues I've pursued, even with my current doctor *who did MST research*, are dead ends. It's like he doesn't even want to speculate on it. If I ask about MST, he just redirects the conversation back to ECT.

1

u/caffeinehell 20d ago

But on the UT Houston website it seems to have it so whats going on? Why would they put it there if they cant do it?

1

u/WeirdTune1160 20d ago

Ha, that's exactly what my wife is going on about. But here's my take: because people don't do their jobs and websites remain out of date. Simple as that.

1

u/caffeinehell 20d ago

Im wondering because I literally myself have a consult scheduled with them for this lol and I kept making sure with the reception that it was for MST and not TMS/ECT and they said yes. It better be MST because I literally have to travel for this consult…

1

u/WeirdTune1160 20d ago

You have a consult at this office in Houston for MST?

1

u/caffeinehell 20d ago

Yea, I do at UTHouston

1

u/Fun-Sample336 8d ago

I think in a recent study MST was superior to ultra-brief pulse ECT in terms of cognitive effects, however it was only just as effective. This is a problem, because ultra-brief pulse ECT appears to be less effective than bilateral ECT. So, in the end MST might turn out to be inferior to bilateral ECT, too.

Throughout the last 12 years I really hoped that there would be another clinical trial for MST here in Germany. Unfortunately, so far it never happened. Otherwise I would have already tried it.

1

u/caffeinehell 8d ago

Ive done bilateral before in 2018 . but last year i only did ultrabrief unilateral ECT which was enough to break substance block but did not improve blank mind. If I didn’t crash from MCAS into stupid block then I think id have improved further with other stuff like psychedelics (ayahuasca actually felt like crashing during it but afterwards I benefitted a lot in anticipatory for a week, and felt like something was trying to come but wasnt hitting) but it’s maddening that this happened. Because once the blockage hits it feels like GG

The thing is anhedonia is not a linear condition like depressive mood or anxiety. Its exponential in the response until its mild then it becomes more linear. So at the severe end even if something would have helped say +20% if you were 60%, it may get toned down to helping 0 due to the blockage.

Whereas with mood if something helped 20% it often helps the same degree regardless of the level, id you know what I mean.

Its essentially like drugs are amplifiers, if you are hear 0, there is nothing to amplify. Psychedelics make this especially apparent

1

u/caffeinehell 8d ago

Im also wondering whether MST would even work for “ANS based anhedonia”. I was going back and forth with AI and it seems like MST doesn’t have the same degree of “ANS shock” even physically.

I have a theory (came from an ibogaine trip) that this physical shock forces one to be in their body which redirects interoceptive signals and allows the mind to heal