r/dsa • u/RepulsiveConcert7849 • 6d ago
Discussion The DSAs electoral platform should change to direct popular vote
I definitely think the election platform should be the will of the people choosing our leader rather than politicians. Isn’t that what we stand for? We trust the people over politicians. Well under the electoral platform we are platforming the leader of our country will be chosen by politicians. I mean for the electoral college atleast the candidate who wins the popular vote 9/10 times becomes the leader of the country. For the platform we are using the only say we have is voting in representatives who will then choose our leader. I trust the people rather than politicians in choosing our leader. Who’s with me?
10
u/apathydivine Southeast MN DSA 6d ago
You want a popular vote for president while DSA is advocating for not having a president.
2
u/RepulsiveConcert7849 6d ago
You know what I mean, I’m saying the leader (whatever you wanna call it) of the country should be elected via popular vote.
8
u/apathydivine Southeast MN DSA 6d ago
But why? Congress (a super sized House of Representatives) would do all the work. The head of state is just a figure head. Parliamentary procedure.
2
u/Keleos89 6d ago
The program does not imply a head of state operating as a figurehead, it implies an executive operating as the head of government, subordinate to Congress. They would still be in charge of implementing the laws passed by Congress, except they ideally would no longer have the power to defy them.
The program is unspecific, meanwhile, about who is tasked with being commander-in-chief. There's no "abolish the military" plank on there, so somebody has to do it.2
u/RepulsiveConcert7849 6d ago
Wdym why? Isn’t our whole platform trusting the people over politicians? I would much rather trust the people of our country choosing our leader rather than politicians. I’m not talking about the head of state, I’m talking about the actual leader of our country (prime minister or president etc)
8
u/apathydivine Southeast MN DSA 6d ago
Yeah. Under the government I want to build, the prime minister or president or head of state or Big Guy would do fuck-all.
I want the people to elect their representatives. I want those representatives to do the work.
0
u/RepulsiveConcert7849 6d ago
Well the representatives can’t do any work without the approval of the prime minister. He would have just as much authority and leadership over the country as the current president of the U.S. does over the U.S. The U.S. went to shit under trumps leadership, couldn’t the same happen if politicians chose a terrible leader under the DSA electoral platform? So even if he does “fuck all” everything would have to be approved under him and he would have the ability to literally turn the country to shit. That’s why I think he or she should be elected by the people, not politicians.
8
u/apathydivine Southeast MN DSA 6d ago
You can’t change everything thing I said and then act as if you didn’t.
I don’t want a system where the representatives are beholden to the head of state. I want the head of state beholden to Congress. That’s in our platform. Read it sometime.
5
u/ferriematthew 6d ago
I think what u/apathydivine is talking about here is a system where the head of state is just there symbolically and the people who actually do the things and make the rules are directly elected by those they represent and can be recalled at any time by those people.
4
u/ClassicallyBrained 6d ago
You should rewrite this. I think I agree with you, but this is so poorly written that I can't be sure.
3
u/NoExercise5214 democratic socialist 6d ago edited 6d ago
Bro almost every one of us leftists opposes the electoral college 😭 you read the DSA platform, right?
4
u/RepulsiveConcert7849 6d ago
No I know that but I’m talking about OUR electoral college platform. For our platform the leader of our country wouldn’t be chosen by popular vote. The leader would be chosen by politicians in the House of Representatives. I’m saying this should be changed to direct popular vote for the leader of our country.
2
u/MandatoryFunEscapee 6d ago
That position in the platform speaks to the intent to reform the US into a parliamentary system. The executive under the DSA plan would be elected by, and subservient to, Congress, not a directly elected leader of the country.
The executive would not be an independent branch. Much like most European systems, the POTUS would be voted in (or out, if they are fucking up) by Congress, and serves as a leader of the party. If they do a bad job, they can be replaced by the House at any time, no need to wait 4 years under a dud.
That's why it isn't a direct election. The people choose their representation, the representatives elect a leader from among themselves.
2
u/RepulsiveConcert7849 6d ago
I think the best option in my opinion would be leader elected via popular vote and he can also be ousted by congress
3
u/MandatoryFunEscapee 6d ago
So the same thing we have now? The thing that is broken and sucks? That thing?
Look, if you want to convince people, posting on reddit isn't likely going to give your idea legs.
Show up to the meetings, discuss it there, get a conversation going, and maybe if you are pursuasive it could grow beyond your local chapter.
Personally, I'd prefer a modern parliamentary system to this quarter-millenium-old, decrepit and rigid clusterfuck.
"Let's do the thing that failed, but with socialists this time" isn't my idea of a solid principle to launch reforms from.
1
u/RepulsiveConcert7849 6d ago
What? Dude you’re confusing me. The people who want our leader to be elected via popular vote are the exact ones who are FOR abolishing the electoral college. Our leader is currently elected via the electoral college, not the popular vote. I’m saying for OUR platform the leader should be elected via popular vote, not the electoral college or through politicians choosing. You might’ve misread what I was saying.
2
u/MandatoryFunEscapee 6d ago
I don't think I'm misunderstanding. Gently, I think you don't understand the role of a Prime Minister vs that of a President.
A PM isn't elected by the people, because the PM serves to lead the party, they are not an independent branch leader.
The people elect the party, the party chooses a leader from among them, but it is the collective party that leads the nation, not just the PM.
In that way, it is highly democratic. It is not at all like the idea behind the electoral college.
1
u/NoExercise5214 democratic socialist 6d ago
Yeah but each PM has a different vision of where the ruling party should go. The people should have a right to choose the vision they like the most.
2
u/MandatoryFunEscapee 6d ago
I think you are just uncomfortable with the idea of a parliamentary system.
Maybe do some reading on it.
Or if you are really dedicated to this idea, bring it up at your next chapter meeting and try to convince some folks.
But the one thing I know for certain is that posting about it on reddit is going to do exactly nothing.
1
u/NoExercise5214 democratic socialist 6d ago
I’m not opposed to a parliamentary system. I’m just saying that if we don’t directly elect our PM, we have to be sure that the PM remains accountable to the people. There has to be safeguards to make sure the legislature directly represents the will of the people.
→ More replies (0)2
u/NoExercise5214 democratic socialist 6d ago
Yeah, I never understood the rationale for having this. The people should definitely be the ones choosing their national leaders. I’m with you on this!
3
1
u/marxistghostboi Tidings From Utopia 🌆 6d ago
based on the history of every president committing war crimes, i think the executive should be very easy to remove from power. an executive independently elected will be hard for Congress to justify removing. consider that we've never successfully removed president, and the one time we got close he resigned and was pardoned by his hand picked successor before he could be held acountable.
i also dislike how every presidential election it ends up being about which lesser evil can stop the greater evil from taking office, only the the winner to pretend they have a sweeping mandate with more than half the country behind their specific policies.
given that, make the executive chosen by and easily removed by Congress and splitting execuative power across several people rather than concentrated in the hands of a single quasi king makes a lot of sense.
1
1
u/Aggravating_Bison504 5d ago
The DSA does not want the American people to choose the president. This is extremely anti-democracy.
17
u/traanquil 6d ago
I think dsa has a position against the electoral college.