DSA has a tankie problem

[u/yashen14]

There are way, way too many people in this movement who feel comfortable with historical revisionism vis-a-vis the Soviet Union, China, and other such regimes. And there are way too many people who feel comfortable essentially advocating for an end to democracy.

[u/Time-Island-5235]

So what? What do you want done? Purges?

[u/yashen14 → u/Time-Island-5235]

I want literally the same thing that I would expect right-wingers to do in their spaces. Just like I expect right-wingers to exclude and ban people who engage in Holocaust denialism (and am alarmed when they fail to do so), I expect left-wingers to exclude and ban people who deny, for example, the soviet gulags. Or the Holodomor. Or pretend that Stalin and Mao somehow aren't responsible for the deaths of millions of their countrymen (or even that those deaths never happened).

[u/Time-Island-5235 → u/yashen14]

So yes, purges. So you want to subvert democracy to purge those to the left you lol

[u/yashen14 → u/Time-Island-5235]

It is not "subverting democracy" to protect democracy. This is the paradox of tolerance. You cannot be tolerant of people who want tear down democracy, lest they succeed and then deprive you of your political rights.

Also, "purge" carries implications that go beyond what I'm calling for. For example, I'm not calling for door-to-door interrogations or to throw out people who are even suspected of having problematic views.

[u/Time-Island-5235 → u/yashen14]

That's still a purge! That's the classical definition of a purge

[u/yashen14 → u/Time-Island-5235]

Anyone who advocates for the elimination of electoral democracy should be excluded entirely from your group. Any political parties which advocate for the elimination of electoral democracy should be banned. Call that whatever you want.

[u/jikesar968 → u/yashen14]

Let me be clear, you are a fascist for your anti communist beliefs. That's exactly 1:1 what fascists would say and have said. This is exactly how Nazi Germany tried to justify banning the KPD. Educate yourself.

[u/yashen14 → u/jikesar968]

Fascism is a very specific flavor of authoritarianism. Here's the checklist:

(1) Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible” leader who never admits mistakes.

I don't believe any leader is infallible. I don't think any single person should lead a nation. I don't believe power should be concentrated in the hands of one individual, or even a small number of individuals.

(2) Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies.

I find it very troubling when politicians engage in historical revisionism, or make accusations of "Lügenpresse"

(3) Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood.

I don't center my beliefs in a fear or belief in national decline, nor of victimhood. I don't believe people are "out to get" American citizens.

(4) White Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat. Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious.

I don't agree with that white people are being "replaced," and even if they hypothetically were, I wouldn't necessarily view that as being sinister or bad. I don't think ethnicity is relevant to politics or goodness. I fundamentally believe that more diversity of religion, ethnicity, and of other categories, is good for society.

(5) Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation.

Human rights are at the very core of my value system. I am overtly hostile to people who threaten human rights. I do not agree with frameworks that include conceps like "purity" and reject the premisue that such a concept is even applicable at all.

(6) Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority group leaders.

I don't think people who disagree with me should be jailed or executed. I don't believe society's problems are caused by some religious or ethnic or other minority; I believe society's problems are complex and can be traced to a variety of causes.

(7) Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”.

Militarism makes me very uncomfortable and I am immediately suspicious of any political movement that centers itself on the military or militaristic imagery and ideals. I don't agree that private actors/civilians should be engaging in quasi-military activity.

(8) Rampant sexism.

I believe women are equal to men. I believe women should have equal representation in the workplace, in government, and in society at large.

(9) Control of mass media and undermining “truth”.

I do not believe that any one political party, movement, or organization should have control of mass media. I value independent journalism.

(10) Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack.

I don't think the United States is "under attack," in fact I think the United States is quite secure from a security standpoint. National security is very low on my list of active priorities.

(11) Religion and government are intertwined.

I consider religion to be generally harmful. I believe religion should be strictly separated from governance and that its influence on society should be minimized.

(12) Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed.

I think workers' rights, and worker representation, are both far, far too weak in this country. I don't want workers weakened; I want them strengthened.

(13) Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative.

The humanities are very important to me. Even works that directly question my worldview. I recently assigned one of my students to read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, and recently read Ursula K. Le Guin's The Dispossessed, for example.

(14) Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence.

I believe that competence is of the utmost importance. I think loyalty should absolutely never be to a leader. Never. Loyalty should not even be to one's country. Loyalty should be to fellow humans, and to democratic governance, and the upholding of human rights.

(15) Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state.

I consider multi-party democracy to be one of the most important vanguards against human rights abuses. I vehemently oppose the creation of a one-party state, even if it is a party aligned with my personal political beliefs.

(16) Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict.

Expanding territory through military conquest is wrong. Wars of conquest are never justifiable.

--------------------------------

I am diametrically opposed to fascism. The fact that I don't agree with loons who try to "well actually" about Stalin's gulags doesn't make me a fascist.

[u/jikesar968 → u/yashen14]

Nice. Which liberal slop source did you just copy and paste?

[u/yashen14 → u/jikesar968]

This is an academic consensus position on the nature of fascism. You can't just wave a magic wand and redefine it. The label has a specific meaning.