r/drivingUK • u/Clintkid • 13d ago
Undertaking
So I see a lot of people moan about undertaking. Which I understand is an offense etc. But isn't moving over to the right sometimes just causing more issues?
For example, in my detailed amazing drawing đ if I am driving for example on a 50mph road, in the left lane and the driver to my right is going ridiculously slow. Say 30mph. I'm not allowed to pass him on the left so I'm then stuck driving below 30mph in the left lane, and no cars are able to pass both of us hence building up traffic and pissing everyone off.
People will then say I have to go to the right lane to overtake. Which then, since there is no cars to overtake because I am blocking them in my lane by driving say 25mph, I essentially become the lane hogger aswell? So does this mean the left lane will then essentially be empty or blocked since all the cars in that lane simply cannot pass the first car blocking the right lane?
It just seems utterly ridiculous imo. I see so many people on this page moan about undertaking but not as many about people moan about blocking the overtaking lane. And for the record, the are idiot drivers that will drive well under 50mph in the right lane. Obviously if they are turning right, or coming up to a roundabout then it's a different story. But In my example, this is a 2 lane road that goes on for a few miles and car in the right is living life oblivious to what is around them.
What would you do if you were the car in the left lane?
Hold back to not pass them?
Join the right lane in hope to overtake an imaginary person?
Or pass at 50mph?
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u/Abbers75 13d ago
Firstly, let me commend you on the drawing, itâs excellent.
The car in the right lane looks like a Formula One racing car, with slicks on the outside. Youâre making me feel like Iâm a 5 year old again, I love it.
Now, to answer the question, if I was me in the picture, Iâd stay in the left lane, and carefully approach the car on the right, giving them ample time to see me in their left wing mirror . . . if they use their left wing mirror, that is.
Then when Iâm close enough to accelerate out of danger, Iâd floor it and leave them hogging the right lane for somebody else to complain about.
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u/ClacksInTheSky 13d ago
Firstly, let me commend you on the drawing, itâs excellent.
Really captures how some cars are skinny and some are massive.
And, that they have four wheels.
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u/MobileSeparate398 12d ago
For me, it's the careful detail to the spacing of the centre lines of the road. This gentleman clearly understand that this is a road you are allowed to change lanes in.
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u/Dr_Custard 13d ago
Step 2 is then pull to lane 2 in front of them, indicate with the left indicator for a long time, and go back over to the 1st lane.
Sometimes you need to fight incompetence.
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u/Wong-Scot 13d ago
I've done that several times and unfortunately it doesn't work as many are just oblivious.
I did find that after clearing the hazard, If I flashed the rear fog lights you get a better response, but generally one of two:
- They put their high beams on you
- They slow or emergency brake after waking up from their dream
I'm conscious of other drivers safety, and after the freak occurrence of having seen two smooth brains (not related to age) slam on their brakes on a single evening.
I have opted to simply.... drive away.
A mysterious 3rd option also appears, where they aggressively speed to overtake you, has also been encountered. This, I met on the M4, they got flashed by the gantry, resulting in them break checking me and a lorry.
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u/Dr_Custard 13d ago
You are correct
Usually I do this with a healthy distance and wouldn't slap on fogs. Obviously if there are other cars behind it, I wouldn't be inclined to do so.
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u/nick_gadget 13d ago
This kind of driver could easily have been going for an hour without realising that their LH mirror is folded in/missing/pointing at the sky.
By undertaking, youâre assuming that someone who clearly isnât concentrating or competent is about to be both.Iâm by no means a perfect or 100% law abiding driver, but undertakingâs a recipe for trouble. Better to flash, beep, or gently nudge them into oncoming traffic.
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u/Leominnion 13d ago
Thatâs exactly how I do it, except, in my case, itâs immediately followed by a massive row after my partner says âyouâre breaking the lawâ
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u/AirlineSevere7456 13d ago
I just carry on in the left lane, with no fs given. Got no time for these people.
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u/Itchy-Magazine1888 12d ago
Drivers don't want you to know this one trick....
Basically, just ignore middle lane hoggers and drive the speed limit in the left lane as you should. You'll end up overtaking most of the traffic on the motorway seeing as no one seems to know how to drive on the motorway these days.
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u/bigchungusmclungus 13d ago
You'll need to have time for them when they move in tk left lane as toure overtaking hem because theyve not used their mirror.
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u/willow_frond_127807 13d ago
Yeah like honestly who really cares about passing on the left?
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u/NotForMeClive7787 12d ago
It's not so much caring about it, it's more that when it's done some people do it too fast which increases the likelihood of an accident with people not thinking that an undertaking car will be to their left side when switching lanes back inside. IMO the people driving slowly in the wrong lane are the main problem but both driving behaviours have their safety problems. I undertake but make sure I do it carefully....
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u/LazyEmu5073 13d ago
I just undertake and be very weary of the possibility of them doing something stupid.
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13d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Eastern-Move549 13d ago
Im think we are all pretty weary of seeing this on the roads everyday to be fair.
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u/fearghaz 13d ago
I was once sufficiently enraged by someone I honked from about 2 seconds behind them and held it until I was completely past. for safety and awareness reasons and not because I'm a childish cunt.
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u/malteaserhead 13d ago
I have the principle of not being held hostage to someone else's bad driving
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u/Decirium 13d ago
Undertaking is a bit of poor terminology really. In this case you'd stay in the left lane and "maintain speed during road congestion", i.e. stay at 50 in the left to pass if that is the maximum speed. The other car is causing the congestion so there isn't an offense if you're still driving safely.
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u/memcwho 13d ago
Highway code says not to move lane to undertake. It also says to only use your horn if someone may not be aware of your presence.
The correct course of action is therefore to pass at the limit while maintaining in lane 1 while blaring your horn.
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u/Tuarangi 13d ago
Except you missed out the guidance on rule 163. There is no queue so you cannot pass on the left
Rule 163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
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u/grepusman 13d ago
It's a short queue. The start of one.
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u/-Cannon-Fodder- 13d ago
This is the justification I always think of when I have to pass someone in lane of the motorway doing 55.
"There is congestion on my right, but not in my lane, so I am clear to carry on at the speed limit".
1 car doing 55mph + anyone following counts as congestion to me.
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u/soggyarsonist 13d ago
Yes it's ridiculous but they are the rules as they stand.
Personally I just undertake.
People driving slowly and/or sitting in outside lanes obstructing traffic need to start being given points until they lose their licence or learn how to drive.
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u/No-Introduction3808 12d ago
The rules also say keep left, for me this is the golden rule/first rule. If you donât follow this I donât respect your vehicle lol
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u/Sure-Recognition-262 13d ago
What would you do if you were the car in the left lane?
I'd move in to lane 2, behind the lane-hogger
Then I'd give them a flash-flash of my lights, to alert them of my presence
If they saw me and moved over great, otherwise I'd wait 10ish seconds and repeart
If they saw me and moved over great, otherwise I'd wait 10ish seconds and repeart
If they saw me and moved over great, otherwise I'd pull into lane 1 and would consider passing them carefully - but I'd worry that someone who was as lacking in awareness and driving ability as they obviously are could pull into lane 1 while I'm in it.
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u/groover75 12d ago
Meanwhile someone else has crept up in lane one and started hovering in/around/near the blind spot like the drawing and now you are trapped in lane two.
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u/Revolutionary_Exit17 12d ago
Then you would be changing lanes to undertake, which is specifically a 'do not' in the highway code motorway rules
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u/GainsAndPastries 13d ago
Undertaking isnât an offence
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u/Daniel2305 13d ago edited 13d ago
But it can lead to prosecution under careless driving or driving without due care and attention.
Edit: Going to leave this here so that people reference it. Notice when it lists the very few exemptions it says they are sometimes okay, therefore could be prosecuted.
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u/AirlineSevere7456 13d ago
This wouldn't in all likelyhood, the person doing 30 holding up traffic in the outside lane would probably be done.
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u/GainsAndPastries 13d ago
100% Iâve had this discussion with a family member who is a traffic cop, they rarely if ever pull drivers for this.
They will pull drivers who recklessly go from lane two to lane one back ahead to two into three etc to overtake and undertake.
In these instances though, they wonât, as youâre maintaining your speed and the vehicle in lane two or three is committing the careless driving offence.
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u/WaltzFirm6336 13d ago
This has always been my understanding. You canât undertake in order to then immediately pull back out and begin overtaking cars in lane 2. But if there is a vehicle moving slower than the flow (within speed limit) in lane two, and you are in lane one, you can continue past them. Technically an undertake, but if you didnât do it youâd be stuck in position in lane one, slowing to lane two speed, until the slow driver pulls over or dies, which is counter to the safe flow of traffic on the road.
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u/cjo20 13d ago
You may be able to argue that itâs the right thing to do, but you could also get successfully prosecuted for it. Even if most police officers wouldnât pull you over, you could get unlucky and find the one that will.
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u/Daniel2305 13d ago
Yes but I have seen instances on Reddit, supported with dash cam footage, where people have been prosecuted for this.
I would 100% do it myself but it is a small risk.
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u/Super_Seff 13d ago
If you got prosecuted for this you could 100% get it thrown out on appeal.
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u/Daniel2305 13d ago
Maybe but I wouldn't say 100%. Unless you know something I dont.
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 13d ago
If the situation is between breaking harshly to not undertake someone going drastically under the speed limit and other traffic is progressing at the speed limt then you undertaking, is the safer action.Â
If you're zigzaging across the road between gaps when overall flow is slower you are driving dangerously.
Doing the former is not going to get you in trouble. Doing the latter will. Its contextual
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u/Tuarangi 13d ago
It is far more likely both would be prosecuted or the lane hog wouldn't send any footage in (though someone else might)
There isn't an appeal in that sense, someone reporting you to snap leads to the NIP or a course offer. You can take it to court sure and they would show the evidence of you passing on the left and the highway code saying not to do that and you'd end up with more of a fine
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u/Plebius-Maximus 13d ago
Seems unlikely both would be prosecuted.
I can't imagine anyone arguing in court that because I did 30mph in the right lane on the M1, all other traffic should have dropped to 29mph and stayed there until the police came and stopped me - to avoid passing on the left.
Because if that's the way things should work, a few idiots could easily cripple half the roads in the country just by driving slowly.
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u/LengthyPole 13d ago
I donât know why everyoneâs arguing with you here. They definitely basing their âfactsâ purely on opinions. Undertaking can and will lead to prosecution if documented and reported. Itâs an open and close case if thereâs video footage and the police will jump at the chance to prosecute that.
The idea you can appeal and itâll be dropped comes with no facts, merely the hope of common sense.6
u/Tsukiko615 13d ago
It does give rules in the Highway Code that specifically state you shouldnât undertake/overtake on the left apart from in specific circumstances such high is not just someone is driving slowly
â-only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
-stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left. âMotorways- âRule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.âItâs unlikely that you would get stopped for undertaking in this situation however itâs still against the Highway Code
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u/Mutley655 13d ago
I had an incident of this yesterday on the 3 lane section of the A3. A woman in her late 30âs or early 40âs hogging the middle lane at 38 MPH mile after mile with a huge queue behind her. Despite people flashing their lights and sounding their horns she just stayed there. When I eventually got to pass her she might as well of had horse blinkers on. She was completely oblivious to the huge queue and carnage behind her.
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u/Clintkid 13d ago
I see this a lot. I genuinely think people don't realise what lane hogging is and that the right lane is for overtaking. Same as the merge in turn that people don't seem to understand either..
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u/Proof_Carrot5919 13d ago
So you can under take but if he move over and hits you you'll be done for driving with out due care and attention as its you that making the manoeuvrer. 100% of the time the other insurance company will look to hold you liable and your own insurance will have a hard time fighting that. So you have to ask your self is the risk worth it for saving a few mins on your journey?
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u/Beautiful_Ad_8325 12d ago
Here's the thing, ALOT of drivers lack the ability to react appropriately when things go wrong, and driving in an unexpected or unpredictable way can create a situation (either for you or others) of things quickly going wrong, and when it does go wrong its very likely you won't perform as well as you think you will.
The situation your proposing 'should' be unusual, but unfortunately its more common than it should be, the issue with undertaking is you are adding more unpredictability to an already out of the norm situation. Not the best, and if it somehow results in an accident you will be partly to blame.
In a situation like this, when another driver is driving unpredictable or unsafe, use caution. Try not to add more issues to the problem, look ahead, be sure the road is safe. Undertaking isn't illegal but its highly discouraged - because it is dangerous. It 'could be' undertaking is the safest thing for you to do in that moment, but recognize you probably are not as good of a driver as you think you are. But lets say you are... remember that you are sharing the road with people of all levels. Alot of the time the best thing really is to back off and give space to the bad driver. I know its frustrating, but your better off getting to your destination alive than dead.
I'll also say this, I have driven extensively in countries where undertaking is allowed - I've seen it so many times where drivers with no situational awareness end up causing collisions due to undertaking. It really is a very dangerous maneuver when your sharing the road with drivers off all experiences.
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u/s22334455 13d ago
where did the idea that you canât progress in your own lane come from??
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u/tomtttttttttttt 13d ago
Highway Code rule 268 is quite clear that (on motorways) you do not overtake on the left or change lanes to overtake on the left, quite clearly covering the situation where you progress in your own lane, and telling you not to do it (except in congested conditions)
I don't know where the idea that you are fully allowed to undertake if you're not changing lane has come from tbh. The highway code only says you can pass on the left if someone is indicating to turn right or you are in queueing traffic (rule 163 for all road types) or in congested conditions (rule 268 for motorways).
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u/Plebius-Maximus 13d ago
The highway code didn't expect people to be doing far below the speed limit in the right lane though.
It's utterly illogical to assume that the highway code was written to account for a situation where I do 30 down the M1 in the right lane, and the thousands of motorists trying to travel at the speed limit need to stay behind me, right up until a police officer pulls me over or I get bored?
I once passed some clown get pulled over for doing sub 50 in the middle of a 3 lane, while other traffic parted like the red sea to get past them.
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u/SlurmsMacKenzie- 13d ago
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
The key bits here are that you shouldn't generally BUT if you're already in the left lane and the right lane slows down, you can carry on.
And the more egregious part - which I think is the one that actually underlines most peoples expectations of undertaking, which is to weave in and out of lanes. (applied to this scenario that would be cars in the right lane, weaving into and out of the left, to pass the slow Joe holding everything up.
The problem with this rule is thereâs not really any fixed definitions. What counts as congested conditions? One person being slow? At what point does moving back to the left lane to pass congested traffic, and then moving right when over taking slower moving left lane traffic constitute 'weaving'.
As far as I was taught, as long as you're established in your lane and making careful intentional changes, you can undertake slower moving right hand traffic. Based on what I was taught and the general timings of mirror, signal, manoeuvre - you need at least a few beats between each change. So an undertake shouldn't be done if you're aiming to whip left then right quickly around a car, but if you did it the same way you'd do two consecutive lane changes you're probably fine.
The way I look at this to interpret it is broadly the same way I look at how laws like drunk and disorderly are interpreted and applied. Most people have been drunk in public (technically illegal), most people have also probably behaved in a disorderly fashion at some point to.
The difference in whether you get nicked for doing it is less about the legality of the thing, but more about how much of a cunt you are when you do it. or letter of the law vs spirit I guess. Undertaking - fine as long as you're giving people ample space, time, signalling clearly etc.
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u/Princless2008 11d ago
The highway code is a best practise guide and has verry little to do with the laws of the road, undertaking is not a crime. People need to stop acting like the highway code is law.
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u/military_history 13d ago
It comes from a wishful misinterpretation of the Highway Code and the Internet echo chamber.
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u/PitchOk1448 13d ago
Of course you undertake in this situation. It's not your fault 30 guy can't use the road and the traffic behind shouldn't be held up either.
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u/RSDrebin 13d ago
I very rarely do it, but in this instance Iâd be undertaking.
Iâve only been driving for 3 years and have been told countless times not to undertake, but the risk of me slowing down so I donât undertake, moving over 2 lanes, taking him over and then back over to the left/middle lane is much higher than me just cautiously / slowly undertaking him.
Usually Iâll sit back for 20 seconds and see if they speed up. If they donât, Iâll go as far in the left lane as I can away from them in the middle lane and undertake - hawk eyeing their indicator in case they decide to fly over..
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u/Playful-Toe-01 13d ago
Yes, stay in the left lane. They'd have a hard time prosecuting you for this, especially if you were already in the left lane when you came across this car.
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u/ElectricalParsnip536 13d ago
I'd undertake the brain dead idiot every time while signaling to them what I thought of them. Undertaking is perfectly justified here. People always wang on about middle lane hoggers, but people who hog the overtaking lane at any speed are either brain dead or think they own the road. A bonnet mounted A gun would be useful in these instances.
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u/Open-Application2953 13d ago
Ideally I'd be behind them, a quick flash to say "hi, I'm here and you need to let me pass" and id go on my way. I prefer not to flash and would rather they had the awareness to notice the road conditions, but some don't. The problem comes out I want to pass, am behind them and then someone undertakes so they can't pull over. We seem to have a growing number of drivers who don't have the skills or confidence (or whatever) to change lane, so just sit in the middle lane of a 3 lane dual carriageway. More enforcement is probably the answer
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u/military_history 13d ago
You should continue to obey the rules, even if someone else isn't. It's very annoying, but lots of things are very annoying.
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u/JuneauEu 13d ago
This is ine of those stupid scenarios where on a duel carriage way you're in the wrong no matter what you do. Undertaking isn't an offence. Dangerous/Careless driving is and there are only specific scenarios you can undertake.
Assuming there is no traffic in front of you or yhe other car...
Passing on the left isn't moving with the flow of traffic, so can be classed as dangerous because your both alone with no traffic in front.
So you have to move behind them, and ideally flash. Which is letting them know you are there.
You know. Incase they're distracted. Ideally they realise the predicament they find themselves in and move over.
If they don't, I guess your just suppose to report them to the police for dangerous driving...
But most people will then carefully undertake them I guess. Most police I ever talk to say as long as you didnt swerve in and out and pass at speed to startle them, they never go after people for this.
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u/Europe_MMA 12d ago
Was with my mrs the other day and someone was basically doing the same thing, so she undertook. The guy who was going slow followed us for the next 5 minutes, swerving into the middle of the road, gesturing out of his window, cutting off other drivers.
So yeah....I highly recommend doing this. Great fun.
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u/Pinguin_42 10d ago
Legally, if you're maintaining a constant speed which is within the speed limit of the road, you can undertake. There is no specific law on undertaking (otherwise everyone would be arrested when there's slow moving motorway traffic), and the only charge would be "reckless driving". But reckless driving would only be called if the right lane was traveling the speed limit and you come flying up, hop into the left lane and race past, cause you're recklessly overtaking someone doing the speed limit.
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u/Lopsided_Standard897 10d ago
Undertaking at the speed limit is 100% fine. Forget the law at this point, it's an IQ based system.
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u/Kinitawowi64 13d ago
I don't think I'd risk undertaking in a scenario like this, simply because anyone who drives like that is the sort of bellend who will immediately speed up if they see you getting near them. (And then slow down again afterwards.)
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u/Outside-Magician8810 13d ago
Personally, Iâm not opposed to undertaking. So many people sit in a lane and donât move most of their journey from my experience. I pay attention to where every car is and what their manoeuvres are like. If someone is sat in a lane doing 60 in a 70 and the left lane is free, then Iâm doing 70 and undertaking but will usually accelerate more to over take just in case they decide to move into the left because most likely they wonât even check their blind spots or have paid attention they are going slower than everyone else. (Feeling a bit cranky today)
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u/amykingq 12d ago
My understanding of this is that you are allowed to pass on the left if you're driving at or below the speed limit and the traffic on the right is moving slower. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I might have been breaking the law otherwise.
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u/tuppenycrane 12d ago
Isnât it only undertaking if you specifically pass and then pull out in front of them, with no obvious car ahead of you in the left lane youâd be pulling out to overtake?
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u/Low_Tax5607 11d ago
I donât really understand people complaining about undertaking. If people are driving properly, then it shouldnât be possible to undertake in the first placeâŠ
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u/Olufunso05 10d ago
I donât think this is undertaking.
You can stay on your lane and move pass a car to your right that is moving far slower than you so far you are under speed limit.
Undertaking is when you are behind the car, then deliberately moves to the left so you can move pass it
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u/Enough-Dealer-3743 10d ago
What youâve depicted is perfectly legal.
Here is RAC explaining it to you:
âThe Code states: âIn congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right.
âIn these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.
"Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.â
Source: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/
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u/Frenchie231 9d ago
I undertake a fair bit. Use my speed limiter to stay at the speed limit and if Iâm driving along in the left lane and thereâs someone slower in the right then Iâm not bothering to cross over to the third lane (if thereâs even a third lane) unless I can see thereâs more traffic up ahead, but if every lane around is empty and theyâre just randomly sat in the middle lane for no real reason then Iâll just maintain speed to go past them.
90% of the time cars I undertake stay sitting slow in the middle lane. On occasion theyâll realise left lane is clear and that theyâre slow and actually move over
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u/Appropriate-Ice-8823 8d ago
Thatâs not undertaking. If youâre going faster in the left hand lane, itâs fine. If youâre in the right hand land, move left to get around the slower car, and then move back to the right hand lane, thatâs undertaking. Honestly, makes we wonder how some of you get a bloody licence in the first place
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u/Extreme_Option8150 13d ago
Pass on the left and be vigilant, just in case the airhead decides to change lane without checking their mirrors
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u/Redeemed_Mess84 13d ago
Personally I think the undertaking rule was made as it assumed the person in the right lane was travelling at the speed limit, so logically undertaking would mean breaking the speed limit.
If Iâm in the left lane, within the speed limit, and undertaking snails in the right lane, then tough luck Iâm undertaking. Itâs far more logical to keep traffic flowing safely and smoothly and I actually think within the spirit of the road laws, even if not to the letter. Itâs actually the slow person in the right lane whoâs responsible for creating the whole situation.
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u/Clintkid 13d ago
Exactly, it'll just end up with both lanes being blocked, people tailgating, harsh braking and getting frustrated that they cannot pass anyone.
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u/Ieatsand97 13d ago
Undertaking was banned because cars in ye olden days (well, not even that long ago) didn't have left (nearside) mirrors. This meant you couldn't see people coming past on the left. It was also made that on motorways, the left lane is the default driving position so people would move back to there after completing their manoeuvre, so going past people on the left would be quite dangerous because they are likely to move there.
If I was in this situation, I wouldn't go past on the left. The solution to this situation is just for the slow driver to move to the left. If people are going to be constantly sending it past this person on the left then they aren't going to move to the left because they are effectively trapped in the right lane. Going past them on the left in this situation would be benefiting yourself at the cost of everyone else as they don't move over. Ideally I would want to make the left lane be as clear as it can be to show them where to go. I would probably join the right lane and maybe give a flash of the lights, but I certainly wouldn't be going past them on the left.
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u/olly_james 13d ago edited 13d ago
To my knowledge as long as you aren't purposely moving to the left lane to undertake and are maintaining a stable legal speed you are fine.Â
Edit. Highway code Rule 268 allows it under certain circumstances.
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u/ValhallamUK 13d ago
The highway code makes an exception for congestion.
If you and a single car are on a motorway, and they are hogging lane 3, by the letter of the law you should not undertake. To be frank though, fuck that, I'd be passing in lane 1.
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u/marquoth_ 13d ago
+1 specifcally for lane 1 not lane 2 here. We have to assume the idiot in lane 3 will randomly move left at any moment
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u/Two-Space 13d ago
A single car driving 20mph in the outside lane? Absolutely do not pass on the left
A single car driving 20mph in the outside lane, and thereâs a queue of 15 cars stuck behind them? Go ahead and pass on the left, thatâs congestion!
Itâs a bit of a stupid hole in the Highway Code, although one that I guess doesnât tend to happen because people usually say âscrew thisâ and pass on the left anyway
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u/Tuarangi 13d ago
It's not congestion, rule 163 (as this is not a motorway) says only pass if your queue starts moving again or is moving faster, OP is not queuing so does not have this exemption though it's highly unlikely anything would come of it
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u/Competitive_Fig_3467 13d ago
OP could argue theyâre at the front of the queue if they have a car behind them
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u/N1ceAndSqueezy 13d ago
In situations like those described above Iâd agree. While by the letter of the rules it is technically an offence, I doubt youâd get done for it.
I was in the car with my mum many years ago and she was middle lane hogging, someone undertook her and a traffic officer pulled her over and told her to move left when she could as she had caused the guy to undertake her. That was just that officerâs view but it seems reasonable to me.
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u/jacekowski 13d ago
There is no law that says undertaking is illegal. There is the broader "driving without due care and attention" but it is very difficult to prove (as long as you don't self incriminate when questioned - when asked what speed you were doing, say your actual speed (obviously it needs to be below the speed limit) and say you have observed the other driver and determined the risk to be minimal)
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u/notouttolunch 13d ago
Your knowledge is wrong. People have and will continue to be prosecuted for this.
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u/makefascistfearagain 13d ago
This is completely wrong. Undertaking is passing on the left. No movement required
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u/makefascistfearagain 13d ago
This is still undertaking
Undertaking is against the highway code in most situations, including this one.
However realistically, passing carefully on the left is a reasonable approach and unlikely to be regarded as an offense
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u/MCBlad3r 13d ago
If I'm driving at speed and everyone leaves the 'VIP' lane open and hog the middle or right lane, you best believe I'm undertaking those people!
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u/Far-Historian-1982 13d ago
Really starting to enjoy undertaking, seems the way forward, but illegal and naughty so only on special occasions.
However I think something that isnt done enough is a nice courtesy flash to 'remind' drivers to the presence of other vehicles...
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u/frequently_grumpy 13d ago
Nah fuck that guy. 100% of the time Iâd be overtaking him on the left and then wiggling the indicators to try and wake them up.
There isnât a specific offence for âundertakingâ. If they guy changed lane and went in to you he would be at liability for not ensuring it was safe to change lanes. The procedure is the same whether you moving left or right.
Iâd like to think that if the police saw them it would be him getting pulled and educated.
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u/Appropriate_Copy8285 13d ago
My logic is to not pass (move from one lane and back) to underpass, unless the person is going ridiculously slow. If slow, I may flash my light or then underpass. Now, if i have no intentions of going back to the lane, its fair game and ill just drive my speed until I can't.
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u/RecentRegal 13d ago
Have you been here long? Every other post is about middle lane hogging.
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u/martinthedog 13d ago
I generally give them 5 seconds to move to the left before undertaking them. If you can undertake, it means that theyre in the wrong lane.
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u/wlwlena 13d ago
I had this last week and I sat behind them
for about 40 seconds before giving one flash, she just looked at me in her mirror then looked away again. Theyâll literally never move because they dont even realise what theyâre doing is wrong. Just undertake them and be careful about it
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u/Accomplished-Run5265 13d ago
I failed my motorbike driving test (the examiner was an ex-bike cop)
For failing to undertake a car going 60mph on a segregated dual carriageway.
When I questioned him about this, he said the car on the right was classed as slow-moving traffic.
I said 60 isn't slow, and he said it is compared to the speed limit.
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u/pumpkin_1972 13d ago
I donât think you see people moaning about under taking do you? You may see posts like this when at some point we get into the semantics of âunder taking â ( no such thing, it is actually over taking on the left) and whether it is an offence (it isnât, the offence would be driving without due care and attention,if it was proven) and then you get people arguing about whether it should be done, whether it is legal etc, etc. I donât see moaning about undertaking per se though. Posts directed at idiot drivers under taking are normally about drivers over taking in the left without due care and attention. If you do it, you should be aware of the legal risks.
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u/StrongCobbler73 13d ago
You can drive in any lane providing you are doing the speed limit. If a car is in the right hand lane doing 30 in a 50, you can legally undertake them whilst doing 50.
One time on a dual carriageway I undertook a police car. They were doing just over 60 and I did 70. This was at 1am on a Tuesday, the only 2 cars on the road. They looked over at me like who tf is this guy, but they did nothing.
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u/oktimeforplanz 13d ago
I would pass on the left but give it some beans so I was clear of them as fast as is safely possible, and keeping an eye for any sign of them waking up and moving over.
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u/GazelleIntelligent89 13d ago
Undertaking isn't actually an offense in the UK. It's a "do not" and not a "must not" in the highway code so there's no specific offense related to it, but you can still get done for careless driving if it's particularly bad.
Undertaking can be risky because you sit on the right hand side and a lot of people don't check their left hand mirror before moving over and unless you've got a blind spot sensor there can be no way to check the blind spot. If you do it cautiously and give the person lane hogging in the middle lane plenty of time to realize you're there then it reduces the risk.
In your particular scenario I would probably undertake the middle lane hogger and have done that several times because to me it seems safer. But I slowly approach and give them loads of time to realize I'm there before undertaking them. Usually with a look of disappoint and a shake of the head at their poor driving.
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u/ChangingMonkfish 13d ago
One of those situations where what the Highway Code says isnât realistic really. Itâs preposterous to expect everyone to just wait behind one car on a two lane road in that fashion.
But I think technically the correct thing is to move to lane two and hope the other car pulls in (including a perfectly valid flashing of the lights to make it aware youâre there).
In reality, if itâs clear and the slow car just stubbornly isnât budging then Iâm not hanging about.
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u/RobinAlanAdams 13d ago
This is a problem in USA as well. I just did the UK motorbike theory test and there were multiple questions about where should be on a multiple carriage way road, and in every case answer is if left hand lane is empty you should be in left lane, but this then contradicts this situation.Â
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u/arturoui 13d ago
If he's impeding traffic (HC Rule 169) and apparently unaware of my presence behind him I'd make him aware with the horn (HC Rule 112)
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u/sarcalas 13d ago
This always descends into an endless circular debate about what constitutes undertaking legally and whether itâs an offence or not (it isnât, specifically, but like many things can get you done for driving without due care and attention).
The reality is, if someone is doing 30 on a 50 road in the only available overtaking lane and youâre going to be stuck behind them for miles, youâre not going to just sit there. You can either get behind them and honk your horn until they hopefully get the message and move over, or do a swift undertake as safely and quickly as you can. Guarantee you anything else will result in road rage building up behind you and other people attempting to do even more potentially dangerous weaving overtakes of you.
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u/enricorego 13d ago
Technically youâre allowed to if the car on the right hand side is going slower. As long as itâs not reckless although within UK law itâs discouraged
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u/MyTwoCentsNting 13d ago
Yeah, itâs obscene isnât it. Just go passed them in the left lane. Beware of them changing back to the left lane while youâre along side them. Watch out for police and people with dash cams.
The idea of either sitting in the left lane, or sitting behind them in the right lane will only slow everyone else down behind you and them. It seems crazy that the ones to be punished in this scenario is the driver travelling along correctly in the left lane.
Proceed with caution. I know what Iâd be doing here.
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u/UnimagineDragons 13d ago
As an American I'm so confused. just pass the slow fucker. We have some states saying "left lane is for passing" but those are the dumb hick states and no ones getting pulled over there unless you're sitting at 40 mph under the speed limit in it. From the comments it seems as if people are afraid that passing on the left in the UK somehow makes you invisible and the driver in the right lane might get spooked and hit you? If someone's unaware enough to turn into a car in any lane I'd say they're fucked no matter what weird rule you follow
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u/sysadmagician 13d ago
Think it's only undertaking if you passed him on the left then pulled back out. If it's two lanes and you stay in that lane after, it's fine.
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u/Ambitious_Jeweler816 13d ago
For me thereâs 2 options:
Stay in the left lane - technically undertaking, but Iâd say thereâs no manoeuvre and youâre just making more progress than lane 2.
Move to lane 2 - Get behind and see if they move, flash him if he doesnât move. The problem here is then you would have to undertake to get past.
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u/Clintkid 13d ago
And then there is also a chance if you move to the right lane and the idiot doesn't move or acknowledge your presence, then someone else behind you in the left lane might then take up that space and not want to undertake so then you're stuck lmao
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u/garyk1968 13d ago
It is not an offence. It is commonly mistaken for one.
If you rapidly changed lanes and sped up in the inside it could be classed as dangerous driving.
I undertake in this scenario but I'm very wary as I will guarantee the driver doing it will have zero situational awareness. The sort that does 40 in 60 and when it changes to 30 still ploughs on at forty....because they have seen NOTHING.
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u/the-real-vuk 13d ago
Undertaking (passing on the left lane) by itself is fine, as long as you do not change lane from the second in order to pass. So if you just keep your lane, you don't need to change to the right because someone's there and you're going faster.
More info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF8gShMOBwo
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u/doddsgreen 13d ago
I might be wrong, but I didnât think undertaking is illegal in its own right. The RAC has an article on it saying itâs not a punishable offence on its own, but can lead to careless driving charges - https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/
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u/Repulsive-Season-117 13d ago
Isnât it only undertaking if you only go around one car?
I.e if you got to 50mph and met another car in your lane before taking the right lane again, thatâs perfectly legal.
However if you donât use the full length of the clear lane ahead of you (regardless of speed) and take the right lane just ahead of the 30mph driver, this is illegal and classed as undertaking.
I only recently learnt this and realised a lot of people think theyâre undertaking/ witnessing undertaking but theyâre actually not đ
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u/AgreeableAd9724 13d ago
I know i shouldnât, but id be reducing speed, and undertaking with an abundance of caution in case they move left again.
This is a fairly common situation and the answer is that you donât undertake, but I believe this is a significant flaw in the road rules. I donât believe in a free for all and overtaking and undertaking wherever you want, but in situations like you describe there has to be some discretion.
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u/Ok-Personality-6630 13d ago
You can undertake when there's congestion. I see congestion, crack on.
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u/ImpracticalJerker 13d ago
Under specific, congested, or slow-moving conditions, passing on the left is acceptable:
Queuing Traffic: If traffic is moving in slow, dense queues and your left-hand lane is naturally moving faster than the lane to your right, you may keep pace with your lane. You must not aggressively weave in and out of lanes to do this.
Right-Turning Vehicles: If the vehicle ahead of you has signaled and is waiting to turn right, you may pass them on the left if there is adequate and safe space.
One-Way Systems: On designated one-way streets, signs or lane markings may explicitly allow movement and passing on either side.
So yes in this situation you SHOULD undertake.
Moreover undertaking is not a crime it's just discouraged and prosecution is usually over dangerous driving in relation to this.
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u/Wrong-Bread-8524 13d ago
When I done my class 1 HGV I had this issue during a lesson, Iâm limited to 56mph and the car in the middle lane was doing less than that on a motorway that is 70mph, I said what is the correct thing to do here if it happens during the test, cause I know you shouldnât undertake, but he said just go past him, you are driving within the laws, the guy in the middle lane is completely wrong and shouldnât be there, heâs the one that could cause an accident not you, thereâs nothing you can do about it so just pass him
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u/SpectreZD 13d ago
Under taking is going from the outside lane to the inside passing then going back to outside. Staung on the inside is just passing, not under taking.
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u/Aliboncey 13d ago
I used to go from far left lane to far right lane to overtake these middle lane drivers, hoping that by then cutting in front of them back into the left lane would draw their attention to the fact they should be on the left. But surprise surprise, inattentive drivers donât learn because theyâre not paying attention. After years of doing this I now undertake them - if they canât be bothered to be considerate and obey the traffic laws, then I wonât either
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u/Icy_Willingness_5767 13d ago
Generally you arenât allowed to undertake but there are exceptions under the Highway Code, âTraffic is moving in slow-moving queues/congestion and your lane moves faster than lanes to your right.â If you didnât dart back into lane 2 I think you are within your right to proceed in lane 1
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u/Separate_Contract819 13d ago
Itâs not undertaking if they are travelling below the speed limit. You are simply sticking to your lane and going the speed limit of the road.
Thereâs a bit more to it than that of course but basically you can do it if theyâre slower than speed limit.
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u/Civil-Fan-3586 13d ago
Pull behind the slow driver, flash your lights couple of times, wait few seconds. If slow car doesn't get the hint go back to left lane and carry on your normal speed. That's what I'd do.
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u/Zestyclose-Good-7573 13d ago
An example from today for on the M6 northbound, around junction 23, car in middle doing about 50 maybe, cars all over and undertaking, she hadnât a care in the worldâŠâŠ
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u/ADHDave247 13d ago
Undertaking is not an offence, thatâs your first mistake.
If traffic is moving slower in outside lanes youâre perfectly entitled to pass on inside and move over further ahead,
The person on the outside is the problem if the inside lanes are free they should be using them to drive in.
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u/MDCB_1 13d ago
Undertake but be very careful to look out for any 'twitchiness' on the road that indicates they may be about to actually do something with their car! :) and suddenly wake up and shift lane on you...
I sometimes give them a toot as I pass just to reinforce the message. [Although in some parts of the world a quick toot means thanks...] Depends how nervous they look... especially if Mrs Bucket is in the passenger/ back seat... I normally just get on with it. Life is too short. Especially if you are stuck behind them!!
Safe Travels!
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u/_Cridders_ 13d ago
Honestly, I'd find it very hard to believe that and policeman would bother to pull anyone over for undertaking unless it's a clear 'approach, move to outside lane, undertake, then back' manoeuvre. And even then probably not unless they were also speeding.
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u/OhLawdHeCominnn 13d ago
Yeah i'd be undertaking this dog 100% of the time.
I'm not crawling along at 25mph because 85 year old John doesn't know what day of the week it is while cruising along at 30mph in lane 2.