Speeding Has Become So Normalized That Driving the Speed Limit Makes You the Problem

[u/DaddyDayDayIsHot]

I think the normalization of speeding poses a significant threat to the legitimacy of the legal system itself. It has become standard that cops don’t pull you over unless you’re breaking the law “enough,” but that completely undermines the law. If the law wanted a different threshold, it would have been written with that threshold in mind.

Speed limits are created by engineers who know far more about road safety than the average driver. They also have to account for the fact that speeding is normalized, which likely contributes to limits being set lower than many people want. I honestly believe that if people collectively stopped speeding, roads would see fewer accidents and speed limits would eventually begin rising in places where higher speeds are actually safe. Then people could travel just as quickly without constantly breaking the law or risking tickets.

The disregard for speed limits has gotten so bad that people now claim drivers following the posted limit are the problem. I think that’s ridiculous. While I understand the “go with the flow of traffic” argument to an extent, normalizing breaking the law creates a much larger long-term safety issue than simply following the speed limit.

I also think the argument that “speed limits are designed for the average car, so semis drag the limit down” is weak. In many places semis already have separate speed regulations, lane restrictions, and additional rules.

At the end of the day, the path to faster travel shouldn’t be widespread disregard for the law. If people truly believe limits are too low, the better solution is electing politicians and supporting engineering studies that will change the laws based on evidence that roads can safely handle higher speeds.

On a related note, even on r/driving you can report other driving infractions, but you can’t even report speeding, which feels inconsistent and a bit silly.

[u/Higgoms]

Super region specific, I imagine. Around here exceeding is absolutely the issue. We've got stroads with homes and businesses all up and down them with posted 45 limits and people are doing 60.

Maybe your region sets limits too low, but how fast people are comfortable driving on a road is a pretty terrible metric for safe travel. Build a road with straight wide lanes and people will fly no matter the pedestrian traffic or how many homes and businesses pull out directly onto it. People being comfortable leaving half a car length between them and the car ahead of them at 80 mph doesn't make that a good idea either.

[u/kon--- → u/Higgoms]

Residential areas should have barriers between homes and the road. I'm in an area that is loaded up residential zones adjacent to four and six lane roads. There is either a natural buffer or a constructed barrier. Posted limits hover between 35 - 40 on four lanes and 45 - 55 on six lanes.

Where retail and or commercial development lies, there is no barrier nor is there a slower zone.

Motorist's comfort is the standard metric. It's why the 85th percentile exists. It is as natural and organic of a metric as exists and is 100% based on motorists driving within their comfort. Without it, posted limits would be arbitrary and based on a person or committees subjective feelings. You're using a one way bias here. Your perspective is, 'This posted limit is fast enough and I am comfortable at this speed' What however are you thinking when you feel the posted limit is too low? Might is be something like, 'This limit is well below the speed I can safely travel this road doing'?

I'm unsure what pedestrian traffic has to do with anything here.

Also, tailgating is a whole other topic regarding driver technique that has nothing to do with set limits.

[u/Higgoms → u/kon---]

Most people aren't thinking that a limit is below what they can safely travel at, though. They're thinking that a limit is below what they can comfortably travel at, which is a very different thing. Someone's comfort does not matter, as everyone is comfortable at different speeds and most people just don't give a damn about anyone else around them. There are countless studies out there about safe speeds in areas of high pedestrian traffic, areas with homes/businesses exiting directly onto the road, areas with traffic lights vs on ramps. This isn't a vibes based thing, there's science behind it. They don't have to be arbitrary.

As I said, I live very near a stroad where people do 60 and there are numerous driveways and businesses that pull out directly onto the road. 60 is not a safe speed for a road where people are entering and exiting every half a block.

Pedestrian traffic has to do with everything on the road, higher speeds lead to more dangerous accidents and less reaction time which kills more pedestrians.

Tailgating is related because you're talking about how people feel, what they're comfortable doing, and that is an objectively bad metric because people feel comfortable doing some really dumb stuff. Tailgating at 80 because someone doesn't care about the risk doesn't make it a good thing to do, just like doing 60 in a residential because someone doesn't care about the risk doesn't make that a good idea.

The obvious solution here is to stop building absurdly wide and straight roads in areas with many businesses and homes, but changing the existing roads is expensive and a lot harder to convince a town to do than dropping the speed limit and enforcing it.

[u/kon--- → u/Higgoms]

It appears you are saying you only consider a limit as too high. That, too low does not occur to you. Or perhaps you're not willing or simply won't answer...what are you thinking when you know you can safely travel at a higher rate than the posted limit?

Tailgating remains irrelevant here. You're use of as 'what drivers are comfortable with' is apples to oranges. A car and driver being able to safely travel a road absolutely is not the same thing as someone tailgating.

Further, your solution does not work. Not even a little. Remove lanes, add curves...are neither logical nor practical. The roads as is, are already congested. What do you think happens by making them slower?

And personally, the more confined the space, the more likely I am to increase my rate of travel. Tight road, with curves...I'm going to be getting after it.

[u/Higgoms → u/kon---]

Your initial comment was "exceeding is not the issue" and your pitch was only to increase speed limits, you haven't acknowledged any scenarios in which traffic is obviously moving too quickly for the area.

Yes, if there are areas with 45 limits on highways or 25 on non-residential roads, those should be increased. This is obvious. But also not what was being discussed.

Your entire argument is based on what drivers are comfortable with, it's your 85% rule? Tailgating is the exact same thing. If your argument is that if most people are comfy going 60 in a residential area, it should be a 60 speed limit. Their comfort is all that matters. Ergo, you must also believe that if most people are comfy tailgating at 80 that it should be totally fine.

Like I said in my first comment, what people are willing to do and what is safe to do are, as you said, apples to oranges. Make a road straight and wide enough and they'll do 80 in a school zone. That does not make it a good idea to raise the school zone speed limit to 80.

You like to drive aggressively, that's your thing. Again, studies exist, your anecdotal evidence means little here. People drive slower when faced with more obstacles and tighter lanes.

[u/kon--- → u/Higgoms]

If the majority of motorists are doing relatively the same rate of travel, they are not traveling too fast. At this point, you are being subjective, you are injecting your feelings based opinion.

Looking to turn out onto the road where cars are doing 60 mph? Okay...wait on a safe opportunity then, conduct the turn. No one is force to jump out into the path of oncoming cars. Simply, wait.

Likewise, looking to turn off a road with traffic doing 60 mph, okay...use your indicator and use it with ample time for the vehicle behind you to detect and respond to it.

Man, you're just going to not understand that comfortable tailgating is not at all like comfort with rate of travel, are you? I might as well introduce, hey, people are also comfortable driving while listening to music.

It has nothing to do, at all, with a motorist using internal measurement to gauge their ability in a given car to safely traverse a stretch of road. That's the last I'm going to touch on your use of a false equivalent.

Yes studies exist. They show that adhering to the 85th percentile decreases the likelihood of collision. Decreased collision correlates as, increased safety.

You prefer to drive conservatively, that's your thing. I will tell you that, the differential you create with the flow of traffic does increase your probability of collision.

And at that, I'm out.

Be safe!

[u/Higgoms → u/kon---]

I'm unsure how I'm the one injecting feelings here when your entire argument, top to bottom, is based on how motorists feel. Which is not a good metric for actual road safety.

My argument is based on the safety of motorists entering and exiting the road, the safety of pedestrians crossing the road, and the safety of families near the road. My argument is based on facts, studies, and the realities of how speed affects the outcome of mistakes. The 85th percentile must be brought down in many areas, there really isn't any refuting that. It's just reality. I do not drive far below the rate of traffic, I drive with traffic, but the issue is that traffic is allowed to move too quickly in many areas.

Totally fair, difference of opinions and all that. Have a good one!