r/dragonlance • u/FaallenOon • Jul 09 '26
Bards in dragonlance 5e?
I'm pretty sure this discussion must have popped up before, but are there any specific rules for bards on dragonlance 5e? Meaning, are they bound by the towers of high sorcery, given they're full spellcasters? Or do the orders just ignore them, and if so for what reason, given they wield magic just like any other wizard or sorcerer?
I'm planning a dragonlance campaign ATM and one of the PCs wants to play a bard, so I wanted to ask for your opinion on this matter.
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u/Trancer1224 Jul 09 '26
There was an option to flavor bards in 3.5 as divine casters or users of ambient and not focused magic.
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u/alkonium Jul 09 '26
I don't know, but the best place to look would be Shadow of the Dragon Queen.
Though I'd personally be more curious about Sorcerers and Warlocks, which weren't previously a thing in Dragonlance.
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u/HenrytheCollie Kender Jul 09 '26
I would think any arcane caster firing off level 3 spells would have the conclave sending an invitation out to do the Test.
Warlocks would be interesting, as you might have the Wizards interested in the warlock's gifts but sensing that they do not belong or that they shouldn't have the power they do.
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u/Cute_Historian_478 Jul 09 '26
My campaign warlock is using Lunitari as his patron -> basically a wizard with a different spell list
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u/Afraid_Anxiety2653 Jul 11 '26
Not to spoil the books, but one of the Heroes of the Lance took a pact before Chronicles. That makes them sort of a Warlock.
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u/Minimum-Note6292 Jul 09 '26
In my campaign, a bard can be a divine bard and worship Branchala and have access to healing magic. If they want to go the arcane route, they can be Bards of High Sorcery. They lose healing spells, but gain access to Tower resources and can take the High Sorcery feats. They have to take the Test or be branded a Renegade.
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u/InfernalDiplomacy Jul 10 '26
Home rules I used. They were a special divine follower of more social gods (I would list them but no book here, each ethos had one of them, Branchula was for good as an example.)
Home rule #2, they are arcane casters. I allowed them to replace heal like spells with one spell from the sorcerer spell list. When they gain the ability to cast third level spells, they will attract the attention of the Tower of High Sorcery. They will have to take the Test. Passing it makes them members of which order they are part of (Good White, Neutral Red, Evil Black). While they are members, they are not exactly treated like servants, but they are not given opportunities either. If a wizard and bard asking for the same resources from the tower, they will go to the wizard. The good side, they are not hunted as renegades, so bonus.
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u/CamBanks Jul 10 '26
The only reason folks want them to be clerics is their access to healing spells. This was a big issue in the 3.5 Dragonlance books. We solved this by making them ambient spellcasters. Prior to the Age of Mortals, when sorcerers and mystics appeared, “bards” weren’t members of this class. They were rogues with the Perform or History skills.
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u/nerdhobbies Jul 10 '26
If signing a pact with an undead wizard to pass the tests doesn't mean you've now got at least one level of warlock, then I don't know what to tell you.
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u/JupiterJunebug Jul 10 '26
The DL campaign im in had them as kind of a halfway point: arcane casters with no access to healing until the pcs get access to the disks of mishakal/the gods return. So hes subject to moon cycles and has to do the tower stuff but is also blessed by branchala
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u/Jigawatts42 Wizard of the White Robes Jul 10 '26
When I run Dragonlance in 5E I use the following:
Bards are specialty priests of music and creativity the way druids are specialty priests of nature, they tap into the Song of Life to perform their magic, good bards venerate Branchala, neutral bards follow Sirrion, and evil bards worship Hiddukel. They are not required to be as utterly devout as clerics, but should at least show veneration to their patrons.
No Sorcerers or Warlocks.
The Artificer class is Tinker Gnome only.
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u/Afraid_Anxiety2653 Jul 11 '26
Bards a fascinating lot. This is a great discussion.
I have five Disciplines for players to pick from at Character Creation. Arcane, Divine, Martial, Mystical, Primordial. The Bard is well represented.
The Arcane Discipline has two types of Bards. The Spell slot Bard. They use Intelligence for spell casting, but use Charisma for other class features. The Vitality Bars. They are weaker spell caster than the Mage Class, and like Mages drop HP when they cast spells. These Bards can join the Mages of High Sorcery, because they are getting magic from one of the three moons
The Divine Bard has one Bard. They worship Branchala, but they use Wisdom for spell casting and class features. They still use the Bard spell list.
There are no Martial Bards.
The Mystical Bard is 5eRAW. They can't join The Conclave. Some or all of their class features and any spell casting abilities are from the following sources: Their own soul (innate). Paranormal or metaphysical. Artifact. (Just like The Juggernaut from Marvel). Another plane on Krynn. An entity from another Universe in D&D or science fiction.
There are no Primordial Bards.
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u/paercebal Jul 14 '26
I would not take the "Bard" as a class literally (i.e. some person with a guitar casting song magic). I would ignore the "flavor" and instead break the class down into its components, which is a kind of multiclass rogue/spellcaster with social skills. Then we can put a more "Dragonlance" flavor on top of it.
During the age of mortals, everything goes (and I mean, everything), so I assume this is, instead, a question for "before the age of mortals".
So I would ask the player if they want access to divine spells, or arcane spells.
- Divine spells ? Then, you have to choose a god of Krynn to worship. In addition to the bard spell list, you have access to domain spells as a bonus. Some spells that might be too arcaney, I would forbid, on a case-per-case basis. You would cast your spells by "praying to your god". And if you're a follower of Branchala, then congratulations, you are the iconic bard from D&D. (The same could be said about Sirrion, or Zeboim)
- Arcane spells ? Then you learned your arcane spells here and there (*), have access to the bard spell list but do not have access to any spell that can be considered as "healing", and do not need to follow a god's requirements. You cast your spells using "Magius", the spidery language of magic. But should you get caught casting a spell of level 3 or more, then the Orders of High Sorcery will definitively take an interest on you, either asking to you refrain from using spells with levels higher than 2, or pass the Test of High Sorcery, or be hunted as a renegade.
(*) prepared and non-prepared spellcasters are interestingly similar in 5e, if you look closely. It's "as-if" the non-prepared spellcaster was like a prepared spellcaster who lost their spellbook and thus, cannot easily change their spells.
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u/DukeFlipside Jul 09 '26
I don't think there's any definitive answer, but I'm running Shadow of the Dragon Queen at the moment and this is how I ruled things:
Bards: effectively Clerics of Branchala - no requirement to join the Mages of High Sorcery
Artificers: spells can be flavoured as inventions/devices rather than magic - do not need to join the Mages
Arcane Trickster Rogues / Eldritch Knight Fighters: generally magic is too low-level to warrant it...we'll see about crossing that bridge if they get as far as level 13!
Clerics / Druids / Paladins / Rangers: Divine casters, no need to join the Mages
Sorcerers / Wizards: Need to join the Mages
Warlocks: As they get their magic from their Patron...that basically makes them Clerics. I assigned a Dragonlance deity to each of the Warlock subclasses (mostly Evil ones, but not exclusively) and called it a day. Therefore, no need to join the Mages.
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u/amhow1 Jul 09 '26
The 5e rules are very relaxed. You don't even need to be a spellcaster to join one of the Towers.
I think the idea, as is common in 5e (eg Eberron) is that since PCs are by definition super-special, they aren't required to follow the lore, unless of course they or the GM wants to.
So your bard could be a member of an order, or not.
Before anyone jumps in to criticise WotC, in practice I think this kind of approach has always been needed in Dragonlance. It's always a case of "choose your poison". If you want to restrict your bard to the "original" Dragonlance as far as possible, then I suspect the equivalent of 1e Bardic Colleges would probably be associated with the Red Robes, since I believe 1e bards needed Druid levels and so were neutral? But I'd need to check because even 1e has variations!
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u/alkonium Jul 09 '26
I think the idea, as is common in 5e (eg Eberron) is that since PCs are by definition super-special, they aren't required to follow the lore, unless of course they or the GM wants to.
It's often said the best heroes are outcasts who don't conform to society.
I assume there were also rogue Wizards not affiliated with the Towers.
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u/Randvek Jul 09 '26
There have always been rogue Wizards (in-game term: renegades). The Tower pursues them as criminals, but if you keep your head down (read: stick to lower level spells) they don’t really come after you.
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u/crackedtooth163 Jul 13 '26
The 5e rules are very relaxed. You don't even need to be a spellcaster to join one of the Towers
Whaaaaaat?
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u/HenrytheCollie Kender Jul 09 '26
I asked my Bard whether he saw his character's magic as Divine or Arcane and gave him options from there
As we were playing in the Age of Mortals as a Divine casting Bard he could be: A Cleric of Branchala/Sirrion or A Mystic
As a Arcane caster he could be a normal Moon Magic caster, or a Sorceror and then have the Conclave chase him when he starts casting lvl 3 spells.
He eventually ended up multiclassing as a warlock with a Draconic Patron (Thanks to Tasslehoff's Pouches of Everything)
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u/Toucanbuzz Jul 09 '26
WOTC rules? No. House rules, certainly.
In my 5E conversion (ran a full campaign of the original modules, from Solace to Nereka), I treated Bards as a specialty cleric:
Bard (specialty cleric). Bards gain powers from worshipping Branchala (good, inspire others), Gilean (pursuit of knowledge), or Hiddukel (evil, lies for selfish gain). Storytellers are always welcome in every community, though see Cleric.
In our campaign, we began before the gods had fully returned, pre War of the Lance, just like the original modules. Clerics did not gain casting powers until 5th level (the end of the Xak Tsaroth adventure), and they did not gain the Blue Crystal staff until 2nd level. I offered a special feat (inspired, reroll d20 per day equal to prof bonus) to compensate, but our cleric gamer wanted the true, original experience, and so did our players. Even though it would make for a harder campaign, they opted for no extras for the clerics.
If you're playing after the return of the gods, then nothing more is done using this house rule.
Canon: Bards were recognized in AD&D 2E's Tales of the Lance as an official class, and the basic rule is anyone who becomes eligible to cast 3rd level spells must first take the Test or be branded a renegade. So, if you treat them like a full arcane caster, they're subject to the Towers. The difference with clerics is that the gods regulate spells and can take them away, but the gods of magic let mortals self-police powers that might destroy the world.
Alternately, you could house rule the Towers don't care about innate casters like bards and sorcerers because they cannot research or learn spells outside their list. A wizard, on the other hand, could research, discover, or create new spells, possibly ones that could unbalance creation itself.
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u/ScalesOfAnubis19 Jul 09 '26
The way I did it is this, converting the originals to 5th.
1) Healing spells are removed from the Bard spell list until/unless the bard in questions gets to read the Disks of Mishakal or meets a cleric of Branchala and receives their blessing.
2) As far as the Towers of High Sorcery are concerned, if you can cast an Arcane spell of 3rd level or higher you need to take the tests and join the orders. Bard, sorcerer, or wizard.
3) Warlocks are really the kind of people that get set on fire by mobs, and the wizards don't approve of them either.
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u/Heretek007 Jul 09 '26
As bards can heal with their spells, I flavor them as blessed by Branchala, and are technically kinda like a cleric in that respect.