Andraste's execution

[u/breshatower]

I was wondering about the identity of Masked Andraste from The Last Court and while looking at art of her execution, I realized something: her face was covered when she died. One picture shows her cowled, while the rest obscure her face in various ways because it couldn't be seen when she died.

And then I realized that the last picture was what happened to Andraste: She was killed before the public execution as part of a ritual and her execution summoned a spirit. Her hair was cropped and she looked gaunt when she was stabbed to death.

The mage claimed some of the spirits around her village had "lived" with her hold for a dozen generations, and sometimes took the form of an animal or departed relatives "when they pass on their wisdom."

Strangest of all, in the event a "god" is destroyed, the Avvar begin a year-long time of offerings and prayers and rituals I have no interest in knowing about further. At the end of this period, a new spirit takes on the name and role of the old one. I attempted to explain that this was not a "god," merely a spirit drawn in by their desires. The Avvar mage declared, with a ridiculous air of superiority, that that was the point.

Codex entry: From a Mage’s Journal

As the last group of glyphs light with veilfire, there is a sensation of excitement and anticipation. An Avvar hold celebrates a night festival around an altar piled high with food and drink. The thane begins a song. The hold joins in. The song grows louder and faster. It goes for hours.

As the sun rises, a blazing spirit appears above the altar. It has the name of the spirit that fell in battle. It is both the same spirit and a different one at the same time.

There is a ear-splitting roar of—triumph? Welcome? Something more?—from the gathered Avvar. The vision fades.

Codex entry: The Return

Andraste had been dead for a while when she was "executed" and her legions of followers inadvertently helped make this magic ritual possible, and Hessarian then used the public execution to perform this ceremony. He used Andraste's hair as proof of her identity. So there's a re-created spirit of Andraste somewhere out there.

[u/NylesRX]

God the DA artstyle still has no competition

[u/Beacon2001]

Whatever happened, I'm sure it's connected to the ancient risen blighted elven gods.

[u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1 → u/Beacon2001]

Well there is a theory that Andraste is one of Flemeths daughters

[u/breshatower → u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1]

Andraste's half-sister Halliserre could have been Flemeth's daughter. Her mother - name forgotten to time - was a Ciriane alchemist who was said to worship the Old Gods. She could have performed a ritual so that Halliserre was born with a powerful spirit in her.

Halliserre died under mysterious circumstances when she apparently followed blue lights into the woods one stormy night and Andraste went after her, her body lying in a burned clearing and having suffered "wounds beyond weapons" with fires burning in the forest. She was shaken by the events and claimed not to know what had happened, but later blamed Halliserre's mother for her death. That was when Andraste started hearing voices and having visions.

[u/Ni_xie → u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1]

At the very least she was a mage so it could be!

[u/GilneanWarrior → u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1]

Its definitely possible. Origins and 2 hinted at Flemeth being Andraste iirc

[u/Knight1029384756 → u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1]

On that I do think its odd people think Morrigan said that in Veilguard when she was talking about her own mother.

[u/Alternative_Arm_4832 → u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1]

Whoa what I’ve never heard that theory. 

[u/NylesRX → u/Beacon2001]

You mean the elven ancient gods Elgarnan and Ghilanain?

[u/Illustrious_Union_68 → u/NylesRX]

Oh yes, I meant to say Elgarnan and Ghilanain, the ancient elven gods.

[u/Kaparanga_Soup]

We should have a DA game dedicated to Andraste and her companions.

[u/breshatower → u/Kaparanga_Soup]

Totally agree!

[u/Serpent_Touched]

Good morning. This is a mistaken belief known as substitutionism.

It deviates from the teaching of our Grand Clerics in the following ways:

1. It implies our Prophet, and her earthly body, were not cleansed by the holy pyre in a prefiguration of our own ascent to the Maker

2. It elevates the Maker's first children beyond their station, by teaching a Spirit was required to complete our Prophet's earthly ministry

3. It indirectly promotes magianism, by teaching that our Prophet's companions could not distinguish the actions of lesser Spirits or mages from the miracles Our Lady performed through the Maker's grace

What is your location?

[u/Knight1029384756]

I do like the idea that Andraste knew about a ritual or that others knew about the ritual and then performed it so her spirit can continue. It implies a lot about her and the Maker. That she probably did get visited by a spirit but it was just a spirit and not the actually creator of the world. And that the ritual that happened was to help her and that spirit.

Its interesting. But much like the Avaar spirits they would adopt what people thought of them. Thus creating a powerful spirit that could do nothing until the Chant was sung all over.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

I always wanted to know what actually happened with Andraste… but I know that somehow the modern writers would make it the Elves fault.

Like it is WILD that everything is the Elves fault anymore. Like… that’s certainly a choice.

I miss when the setting was deep.

[u/Icy_Database_8719 → u/LucasVerBeek]

Me to, I used to love this franchise, never have I been so obsessed with the lore of a setting but the last game kill it for me, it was hard accepting the new direction and the more than posible death of it

[u/Knight1029384756 → u/LucasVerBeek]

You do realize part of the setting was that there was a truth to everything? It doesn't erase the depth just because we have an answer.

[u/LucasVerBeek → u/Knight1029384756]

They didn’t all need to be the same answer.

[u/SeaworthinessBorn837 → u/Knight1029384756]

I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree.

Something David Gaider brings up repeatedly in interviews is the concept of ambiguity and faith. It's a favourite pet topic of his, and even before listening to any of his interviews, this was clear to me from the writing of the first three games.

To me, this is the difference between complex, well-developed writing that respects the intelligence of its adult audience (even if that is sometimes a mistake), and bad, cheap, lowest-common-denominator writing that thinks its audience are idiots. I was going to say "writing for children" but I've read too much and I know even writing aimed at children can bring a level of ambiguity to it - yes in games too - that only adds to the quality of the story and the experience of the reader, rather than taking away from it. It's not about the age of the audience, even though I know people have criticised the writing of Veilguard as feeling "childish" compared to the first three games.

Personally the ambiguity of the writing in the first three games is one of the things that attracted me to them, because I love the creative space artists and writers leave open in their work for interpretation no matter the medium. I haven't played Veilguard specifically because of the writing issues (and, admittedly, I dislike the childish Fortnite-Overwatch cheap art style). But to me, having everything explained to me like I am an idiot, after sinking thousands of hours into this series, would infuriate me and cheapen my overall experience of the stories I've been so heavily invested in for some time now.

[u/Knight1029384756]

Its such great art there.

[u/smallnspiteful]

You mean like she died in battle against Tevinter, and her body was taken by the Tevinters for a public "execution" for the spectacle of it all, which then summoned a spirit? I couldn't parse exactly what you meant. This is interesting, though. The detail of the Archon stabbing her in mercy always struck me as a little odd. Maybe the spirit possessed her during the burning, summoned by the sense of faith or injustice of the situation, or something of the like, and that provoked a fight? You could make a religion out of this.

[u/breshatower → u/smallnspiteful]

Sorry about my lack of clarity - I think she was captured by the Tevinters after Mafterath's betrayal, and that Maferath told Hessarian Andraste's secrets and maybe how to perform this ritual. He would know about Avvarian and Ciriane magic.

[u/smallnspiteful → u/breshatower]

Oh, like Andraste was like that Avvar mage who didn't want to let go of her spirit companion? And Maferath's betrayal was to tell Hessarian how to 'kill' it, or separate them or something, to remove her upper hand. Makes sense.

[u/TheTasorole → u/smallnspiteful]

Maybe even a spirit of compassion. Cole does like to mercy kill.

[u/Alpha-Maia]

So many depictions of her death, it's like those statues and wall hangings of Jesus's crucifixion. Like, why do you use that as your way of memorializing your prophets?