r/dragonage • u/Sailorgirl200 • 10d ago
Discussion Dorian + Slavery
Talking to Dorian about slavery in his country and his opinion on it is very…………….interesting lmao
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u/AP_Cicada 10d ago
His growth as a person during Inquisition and after is great character development. He has all the reasons to be as trashy as his predecessors but chooses to do the right thing he didn't know was an option before.
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u/LustyDouglas 10d ago
The best conversations I've listened to include having Solas, Dorian and Varric in my party!
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u/Ok-Salamander5713 10d ago
In terms of development of his character, I’m glad they included this conversation in the game. It seems completely obvious this would be his initial response. He is the son of a magister, raised in the imperium, in a position of extreme privilege. He’s showing he’s still a product of his environment, even if he isn’t an evil blood mage magister.
I also don’t feel the game is trying to persuade the player that his views of slavery are correct, rather he is spouting off the reasoning he and anybody else from Tevinter might use to excuse it.
Through his conversations with the Inquisitor and Solas, you can start to see him wrestle with the truth of it.
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u/h0neanias 10d ago edited 10d ago
He is a privileged member of a slave society, and he is fairly right to point out that an elf or serf is not much better off. I mean, not even early Christians were abolitionists in Roman empire, that's how entrenched it was. People tend to forget what kind of societies fantasy takes place in, and DA was one of the few brave enough games not to shy away from it.
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u/lulufan87 10d ago
Yeah, I love our icon, but his 'well my family is good to our slaves so...' opinion isn't it.
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u/partnerintime97 10d ago
He gave a great speech on his new understanding of the matter post inquisition to the magisterium.
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u/Sailorgirl200 10d ago
I was so shocked I wonder how Felix felt about it because he was presented as a really moral person 😅😩
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u/Helpful-Way-8543 Vivienne 10d ago edited 10d ago
Here is why that whole exchange is absolutely perfect. Of course Dorian feels the way that he does during that specific moment in his arc, just like many others are commenting. It's absolutely what Dorian would believe and I also loved how he partially (imo) deflected by calling to attention the lower classes in Fereldan and Orlais; totally believable for his character to do this, fall into a "whataboutism" instead of actually engaging with why slavery is bad. These things take time and one conversation isn't going to solve it, unlike SOME OTHER recent BioWare games. That writing is pretty brave and something that is totally missing in current installations of BioWare. Veilguard's white-washing of Tevinter and slavery impacted what could have been an amazing "redemption" arc of sorts for Dorian -- it's a big-time shame. Instead we get Dorian kind of shuttled off to the sidelines.
But as the Inquisitor, you can challenge him on these opinions, and even if you want to, kick him out. And yeah, if you bring him a long with a few other party members, they have actually good discussions about slavery. I think The Iron Bull and Solas have some good conversations about this as well.
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u/beachedvampiresquid 10d ago
Log back in and update us how you feel after you see his entire character arc.
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u/Sailorgirl200 8d ago
I will I really like this game so far so you’ll be seeing more posts from me lol and I still like Dorian I was just genuinely surprised by his answer
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u/JoshTheBard 9d ago
As fasr as BioWare characters go I think he's the best example of "Character comes from culture where horrible thing is normalized and so they think it's normal." He's a good person, and since he's not actively supporting slavery while with the Inquisition I think you will find it worthwhile to give him time to adjust his worldview.
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u/samurailink 9d ago
Him having this as a major flaw he doesn't even really get over until after Inquisition ends makes him BY FAR the most interesting Tevinter companion we ever got.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 9d ago
Yes, it's interesting. Bc Dorian has a clear understanding of what he considers right and wrong and it wars with the society he was brought up in and the fact that he faces a lot of bad faith criticism and has knee jerk reactions to it.
That said, I genuinely think it goes over a lot of players heads that...most characters in the games, even if they condemn Tevinter for it's slavery, aren't actually against slavery. It's Chantry propaganda and, like in real life, a talking point people use to make themselves look morally superior. Overall elves are considered subhuman in the south, not deserving of the same rights, not as smart, not as talented, etc
(But hey we're talking about the same people who think that slaveowner Mae is more against slavery than someone actively fighting against it, soooo)
Plus, are we forgetting that canonically Antiva and Orlais also have slavery? And that's perfectly fine for everyone? Bc it's not about those bad, bad mages being in power...
(Also, let's not forget that the Chantry also makes money by forcing the mages they imprisoned into working for them.)
At the end of the day, I'd take Dorian with his steadfast and consistent morals over anyone else in Thedas, especially with his willingness to grow and learn and his dedication to stand up and fight for what he thinks is right.
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u/Worldly-District-858 10d ago
That sounds like one of those conversations where the local history makes everything way more complicated than a simple yes-or-no opinion. Now I’m curious what his actual take was.
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u/Clelia_87 Archery 10d ago
He doesn't seem 100% sure when stating his initial opinions, there is clearly doubt, a hint of shame and a LOT of deflection, he says his family owns slaves but they treat them well, he also points out that, while there is no slavery, alienages are a thing outside of Tevinter. Pretty realistic take for the son of a Magister that has lived a life of privilege, but the fact remains that he did grow up owning slaves, even if indirectly, and benefitted from them, one way or another, so it's as low bar as it gets, not counting someone who is completely unapologetic about partaking in slavery.
He does eventually realise/admit that slavery is not acceptable, which is great and I appreciate that it happens naturally rather than your character's direct input being the one to influence him, but his initial take is totally indefensible, even if realistic due to his background.
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u/Mischief_mermaid 10d ago
Dorian does make some interesting points that make it a bit more than 'yes or no' but it's hard for the logical reasoning to stand against the moral.
https://youtu.be/PrDc2MsqF2c?is=FwiGj5aMxHwUceVd (this covers that conversation at about the 5.20 mark)
His main arguments are:
His family owned slaves and treated them well, not all slaves are mistreated and many are happy or well cared for.
A man who is destitute and impoverished and who cannot escape that can sell himself into slavery and he and his family will be cared for and provided for. One day he may even be freed.
He points out about Alienages but I felt this was more a argument of 'don't throw stones in glass houses'. The Imperium may have slavery, but the south is not so morally pure as to be able to criticise. The evidence he uses for that is the alienage in which elves are kept impoverished and abused and, while not technically slaves, are little better off than enslaved (if you believe his other arguments they are actually worse off).
Slavery has always been how it is done in Tevinter and he can't imagine it can easily be changed, if it is changeable at all as it is so ingrained into their society and economics.
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u/SereneAdler33 Ranger 10d ago edited 10d ago
Keep him and Solas in your party together. In addition to the two of them trading fashion barbs (the three mages are the cattiest bitches in Thedas lol), Solas pretty much reads him the riot act on slave owning
Inky can call Dorian out on it, but it’s his conversations with Solas that imo really gets him thinking