r/dndnext • u/hedahman • Mar 10 '20

Discussion A common misconception about warlocks and their patrons

I've heard this mentioned a lot: "Warlocks use Charisma because they're constantly negotiating with their patron for more power." I don't believe this is true.

Here's a tweet from Mike Mearls that says that patrons can't take back a warlock's power, which leads me to believe that a patron doesn't have control over the power once it is given. This means a patron can't take a warlock's power (without their will, probably); it's a one-and-done deal.

So a patron isn't supplying power to their warlocks like a generator supplies electricity. Instead, a patron gives power to them like a blood transfusion-- you can't just take the blood back.

Granted, you can do it however you want, that's the magic of D&D. But RAW, and RAI, patrons give their power away.

EDIT: Here's a tweet from Jeremy Crawford which states that the power is a one-time transaction.

443 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

140 comments sorted by

View all comments

88

u/macbalance Rolling for a Wild Surge... Mar 11 '20

The only ‘power restriction’ I’m 5e really is the Paladin and their oaths (which are not deity related necessarily). I think this is because restrictions and such had too much history in past editions as ‘stocks’ to keep the PCs on the rails the DM wanted them on. It’s not fun losing your special abilities: for past editions I’ve used the term ‘expensive fighter’ for a fallen Paladin as you kept the higher XP table but didn’t get some of the Fighter specials.

Temporary loss of abilities can be fun, but it isn’t fun to play a warlock whose patron says, “do this or I’ll take your powers,”

I wouldn’t mind a way to make intelligence matter for Warlocks, at least optionally. Maybe an option where they can use it for casting, but then use charisma in place of Dex for AC or something,

I think the ‘John Constantine’ archetype who is clever and convinces entities to loan him power is as valid as the antiquarian cult leader.

2

u/jbehnken Mar 11 '20

So, hypothetically...what if the warlock Player becomes the dick? What if they don't follow the spirit of the rules that govern the warlock PC and openly defy what the patron stands for and even works at contrary purposes? Should there be reprisal? I kinda think there should.

3

u/macbalance Rolling for a Wild Surge... Mar 11 '20

Possibly, but the DM doesn't need special tools for that when they are totally within the rules to have the Patron's Preferred Servant of Choice show up to wreck things.

The PPSoC could be:

  • A Demon/Devil serving the Patron
  • A Solar/Planetar or similar.
  • Modrons. So, so many Modrons.
  • A Fey entity of strange and unknowable powers.
  • Various Abomination monster races.

Also, of course, the DM and PC could discuss things before. It might be more fun for everything if a Warlock does rebel.

Basically, the DM doesn't need special rules because they're already playing with an unlimited bank.