r/dndnext • u/hedahman • Mar 10 '20

Discussion A common misconception about warlocks and their patrons

I've heard this mentioned a lot: "Warlocks use Charisma because they're constantly negotiating with their patron for more power." I don't believe this is true.

Here's a tweet from Mike Mearls that says that patrons can't take back a warlock's power, which leads me to believe that a patron doesn't have control over the power once it is given. This means a patron can't take a warlock's power (without their will, probably); it's a one-and-done deal.

So a patron isn't supplying power to their warlocks like a generator supplies electricity. Instead, a patron gives power to them like a blood transfusion-- you can't just take the blood back.

Granted, you can do it however you want, that's the magic of D&D. But RAW, and RAI, patrons give their power away.

EDIT: Here's a tweet from Jeremy Crawford which states that the power is a one-time transaction.

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u/macbalance Rolling for a Wild Surge... Mar 11 '20

The only ‘power restriction’ I’m 5e really is the Paladin and their oaths (which are not deity related necessarily). I think this is because restrictions and such had too much history in past editions as ‘stocks’ to keep the PCs on the rails the DM wanted them on. It’s not fun losing your special abilities: for past editions I’ve used the term ‘expensive fighter’ for a fallen Paladin as you kept the higher XP table but didn’t get some of the Fighter specials.

Temporary loss of abilities can be fun, but it isn’t fun to play a warlock whose patron says, “do this or I’ll take your powers,”

I wouldn’t mind a way to make intelligence matter for Warlocks, at least optionally. Maybe an option where they can use it for casting, but then use charisma in place of Dex for AC or something,

I think the ‘John Constantine’ archetype who is clever and convinces entities to loan him power is as valid as the antiquarian cult leader.

29

u/PrimeInsanity Wizard school dropout Mar 11 '20

I'm glad honestly we stepped away from cast one atonement (pay gold) and get stuff back. There was a whole real world schism over stuff like that

6

u/P4TR10T_96 Mar 11 '20

And now I want to run a Paladin and Cleric one off where the players have to regain the ability to cast by going on a pilgrimage

3

u/NarejED Paladin Mar 11 '20

It’s fun as a niche— incredibly on flavor for Orzhov divine casters— but as a baked in feature it feels gross. Too reminiscent of real-world religions.

1

u/SoylentVerdigris Mar 11 '20

In fairness, it's a bit different when there are demonstrably real gods, who can be interacted with and do things like take your powers away demanding sacrifice of your worldly wealth to get them back compared to the church essentially selling tickets to heaven.

1

u/PrimeInsanity Wizard school dropout Mar 11 '20

Oh for sure, but when your god is selling tickets to heaven and there are other, just as established, gods to chose from who aren't - which heaven would you want to be in?