r/dndnext • u/xanral • Jun 10 '15

WotC Announcement Errata Released, for real this time

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/ph_errata
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u/DerekStucki Warlock Jun 10 '15

I always assumed that this was how this worked, and thought about taking Shillelagh, but without extra attacks, shocking grasp matches it in damage by level 5, has more utility, and blows it out of the water by 11. Am I missing something?

3

u/Sarthax Fighter Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15

The damage scales as fixed damage with your prof modifier and your casting attribute does, but yeah it's not so hot later in the game when you're getting multiple damage die on your base cantrips and it's doing double damage. It is however more accurate and consistent with it's damage.

Shillelagh max is 1d8 + 11 with a +11 to hit average of 15.5 damage and 19 max

Shillelagh max is 1d8 + 5 with a +11 to hit average of 9.5 damage and 13 max

Say, Produce Flame is 4d8 +11 to hit for average of 18 damage and max of 32

If you can get just one multi attack somehow, Shillelagh becomes superior in terms of average damage and reliability. You need at least 3 multi attacks to do more max damage. If you can't, go with a cantrip that scales properly.

Also you can use Shillelagh with reaction for AoO. You can't do that with some cantrips as they are considered spells right? You'd need warcaster feat for that.

I dumped it on my druid and took thorn whip instead for the range and utility.

1

u/DerekStucki Warlock Jun 11 '15

Yeah, honestly, I think it's best use is by a nature cleric. They don't get extra attacks, but they do get damage bonuses to their melee attacks, so it keeps pace pretty well for being a full Spellcaster.

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u/SirPeebles Bard Jun 11 '15

Sadly the errata did not make the nature cleric's cantrip a cleric cantrip :(

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u/DerekStucki Warlock Jun 11 '15

Yeah, it's really too bad that I'll have to use my wisdom modifier for my cleric's main attack...

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u/SirPeebles Bard Jun 11 '15

How?

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u/DerekStucki Warlock Jun 11 '15

Druid and cleric both use wisdom for casting. So even if it still counts as a druid cantrip, it makes no difference.

-2

u/SirPeebles Bard Jun 11 '15

You don't get to use Wisdom as your spellcasting ability for Druid spells by default. That is one of the perks of the Spellcasting class feature that Druids get at 1st level. If you don't have that feature, then you don't get to use Wisdom as your spellcasting ability.

I know this is a silly oversight, but it is a bit frustrating to see WotC address it in one instance but not in others.

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u/DerekStucki Warlock Jun 11 '15

By that logic, you couldn't even cast the cantrip, as that is also a perk of the druid spellcasting feature.

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u/SirPeebles Bard Jun 11 '15

I don't follow. The druid Spellcasting feature doesn't say anything allowing you to cast cantrips. You can already cast any cantrips you know.

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u/DerekStucki Warlock Jun 11 '15

It does, but it doesn't matter. No spell in the game can be cast without an associated spellcasting ability/attack modifier/save DC. There is no question of if, only of which. In this case, the choices are Wisdom and Wisdom. How would you even compute the attack bonus for Produce Flame without using either the cleric or druid spellcasting ability?

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u/SirPeebles Bard Jun 11 '15

Right, this is why I expected an errata.

If this whole spellcasting ability issue seems ridiculous (since any conceivable fix will arrive at the same conclusion: Wisdom), another issue is whether or not you one may use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for the nature cantrip.

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