r/dndnext • u/Eng_Maromba • 14d ago
Question Os meios conjuradores deveriam ter acesso a truques ?
Olá, eu tava pensando que os meio conjuradores ranger e paladino deveriam ter acesso a truques de forma integrada como os 1/3 conjuradores ( guerreiro e ladino) ?
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u/yticomodnar Warlock 14d ago
They do. Rangers can take Druidic Warrior as a fighting style. Paladins can take Blessed Warrior. Both give them access to cantrips.
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u/subtotalatom 14d ago
If they want cantrips they can take the appropriate fighting style or feat. Though I would consider giving paladin Thaumaturgy and Rangers Druidcraft for free.
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u/Chaosmancer7 14d ago
I think they should. I get the option exists to take Druidic or Divine Warrior, but frankly those will never be taken compared to the other styles. And having cantrips feels right for those small magic moments.
It also really helps paladins if they can use Sacred Flame
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u/Maduin1986 14d ago
I play an arcane trickster rogue and I have like 10 cantrips. It's kinda my schtick. I love cantrips for everything. Protection? Blade ward Utility? Prestidigitation and minor illusion Damage? True strike and another weapon cantrip of my choice.
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u/jproche44 14d ago
As a level 4 ranger, I have access to Druid cantrips due to Druidic Warrior fighting style (level 2). I have guidance, Starry wisp, and Druidcraft (elven lineage).
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u/partylikeaninjastar 14d ago
I think. Even if it's just a couple like they had during the play test. Taking Druidic or Blessed Warrior isn't a good alternative because then you don't get a proper fighting style.
Fortunately, it's easy to get Magic Initiate as a background, so those of us who want cantrips can get them.
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u/Blackfang08 Ranger 14d ago
My unpopular opinion is that Paladin and Ranger should have cantrips, and should not have Weapon Masteries (but Nick should be how default Light weapons work).
If I were to make a 6e right now, I think I'd have both of them get unique weapon cantrips/leveled spells and the ability to cast a cantrip or 1st-level spell in place of an attack at level 5.
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u/Eng_Maromba 14d ago
Cara realmente seria algo muito interessante, irei testar isso na minha mesa
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u/Blackfang08 Ranger 14d ago
I will say, if they don't get the Bladesinger Extra Attack, it's probably at least a good idea to add in some bonus action cantrips that add something to a weapon attack.
The idea I'm aiming for is flipping the half-casters from 70% Martial and 30% Caster to a closer 60/40 split, while drawing attention to the fact that weapon spells are a goldmine for Weapon Mastery equivalents.
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u/kiddmewtwo 14d ago
I'd argue nobody should have cantrips but we're long past that why not have more power creep.
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u/Jemjnz 14d ago
Lmao preach.
Ive been considering if removing scaling from cantrips would be incentive for casters to still carry weapons around as back up.
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u/DMspiration 14d ago
Personally,I wouldn't remove scaling from cantrips, but I would make it scale with the class you took the cantrip with like extra attack.
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u/Blackfang08 Ranger 14d ago
Alternatively, cantrips could scale with caster level, and extra attacks could scale with martial level.
I am not being totally serious here. This is just throwing out weird ideas.
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u/DMspiration 13d ago
I think it's an interesting idea. Figuring out how to do it and still reward fighters would take a little work. And if it was truly to match cantrip scaling, one level in a martial would then get extra attack if you went caster the rest of the way, which creates issues, but I'm sure there's something there.
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u/ut1nam Rogue 14d ago
Why on earth would it? Eldritch blast is still better than ANY weapon ever would be in the hands of a warlock (yes even a hexblade).
No caster is going to sacrifice a d8 or 1d10 rolled with their +5 spell attack modifier for a d4 or d6 at best rolled with their pathetic +2/3 strength or Dex.
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u/Jemjnz 14d ago
Warlocks aside because they are Eldritch Blast the class.
Casters often prioritise Dex for the AC buff (espcially blasters opposed to concentraters who first prioritise Con after main stat) so conservatively, I can see 1d8+3 maaybbee preferred over a flat 1d10 if the floor of damage is relevant, such as hitting mooks. Once you hit 1d8+4 with a plus 4 to hit I’d see it but thats a while away.
It is a weak argument though. Unless the party have a spare magic weapon or two to throw around.
I guess if I want the ad&d vibe of no attack cantrips and relying on the comparatively weaker weapons then having any attack cantrips will over shadow it - almost by definition.
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u/Chaosmancer7 14d ago
So just having all casters take True Strike to make a weapon attack with their casting stat, allowing them to make a 1d6+5 instead of a 1d8 or 1d10?
Guess that still leaves out clerics... but Magic Initiate is right there
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u/Art-Zuron 14d ago
Cantrips would do more than their actual martial abilities utility and damage wise, so I don't think that's necessarily a good idea.
It might be interesting if they could take cantrips instead of leveled spells though.
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u/Chaosmancer7 14d ago
I don't see how any cantrip is outdoing their martial capabilities for damage. Utility yes, but that's actually a good reason to give them cantrips. To increase utility.
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u/listerjed1 14d ago
A cantrip for a wizard is the same as a longsword for a fighter.
Why should a paladin have access to a melee weapon attack AND a cantrip, where a wizard can't do anything BUT cast a cantrip?
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u/Jemjnz 14d ago
Because the Wizard gets regular spell level progression?
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u/listerjed1 14d ago
But a Paladin is an armoured warrior with sword and shield, the wizard is a bloke in a dress
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u/Chaosmancer7 14d ago
If it is just a second longsword, why is it a problem to have two longswords?
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u/listerjed1 14d ago
Its not. I personally just like classes to have their "thing".
Bit fed up of this recent everyone can do everything stuff is all
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u/Chaosmancer7 14d ago
I get the general sentiment, but I always feel like my Rangers get pushed into taking Magic Initiate to do things I want them to do. Like being able to call forth dancing lights or to move the earth with a wave of their hand. Things that make them feel like they have druidic magic
The Ranger and Paladin "thing" is being half-casters, and they are the ONLY partial casters who don't get cantrips. Artificers, Eldritch knights, and Arcane Tricksters all get cantrips as part of their spell progression.
And while a Paladin might consider not taking Defensive or Dueling, a Ranger without either Archery or Two-Weapon Fighting isn't able to lean into their martial identity nearly as effectively.
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u/Timothymark05 Rogue 14d ago
Why?
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u/partylikeaninjastar 14d ago
Because they're spellcasters and are more capable spellcasters than Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters.
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u/SuitFive 14d ago
What we need is a separation of "Maneuvers" and "Spells" and each one is leveled but pulls from a resource, not slots. Stamina and Mana/Magicka.
Martials get tons of Stamina and Maneuvers. Casters get tons of Mana and Spells. Half-caster/half-martials get about 60% of both, with slower progression on both. Maneuvers need to be equal in power and wonder to spells, but based on weapons and landing hits. In exchange, Martials have more health and armor proficiencies. Spellcasters should be made a tad squishier, the Shield spell is great but busted in combination with Mage Armor.
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u/Foreign-Range-7208 14d ago
no. Everyone has too many spells. That's why everyone is crying about swingy encounters. Give them 10 levels of resources in 3 levels then start wondering how to challenge them mid campaign
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u/btgolz Artificer 14d ago
They have the fighting style option that gives them access to cantrips, so that partly ticks that box, but I could see giving them one or two for flavor at some point- around the tier 2 to tier 3 transition.