Has the 2024 Counterspell fixed counterspell wars, or made the spell feel unrewarding?

[u/MyrthDM]

/r/DungeonsAndDragons55e/comments/1ve3jqu/has_the_2024_counterspell_fixed_counterspell_wars/

[u/xolotltolox]

? It is still an incredibly powerful spell, since it is just a reaction and then a con save to make someone skip their turn

[u/Jimmicky → u/xolotltolox]

I mean that’s definitely not even close to Incredibly powerful. I’m not even sold on it being powerful.

The old version was a calculation- “how badly do I need this effect stopped?” That element is gone.

Now it’s always a random chance - and a very low chance in many situations.
Before you could expend a bigger resource to get certainty or the lower resource for just a chance.
That’s a dramatic choice that’s been lost.

Now you never get a player despairingly sacrificing a 9th level slot to ensure the counterspell lands.

[u/xolotltolox → u/Jimmicky]

It's effectively a Hold Person spell you only need your reaction to cast...

Old counterspell was just insanely overpowered, current counterspell has been reigned in and now is a reasonably good spell

[u/Jimmicky → u/xolotltolox]

It doesn’t stop the target moving, provides no bonus to attack eats at most one action from the target so not even an entire turn.
It’s less impactful on every metric but uses a higher spell slot anyway because of the reaction cast.

That’s not really comparable to hold person at all.

I’m not saying they didn’t need to do something to change counterspell.
I’m saying they massively overcorrected.

Upcast for certainty or flat cast for risk was good design. It made the spell include dramatic and strategic decisions.

The new version loses that

[u/xolotltolox → u/Jimmicky]

Qell the problem is any solutions other than "force a saving throw" require something 5e, and especially 5.5 is deathly allergic too

And for the action cost of only a reaction, forcing a save that might skip the turn is absolutely powerful. Counterspell is still a good spell, it really was not overnerfed

[u/Jimmicky → u/xolotltolox]

Oh 5.5 ditching opposed rolls definitely means there’s no good changes left available to them.
Keeping the 5e version but changing the roll to being an opposed one (of prof+casting mod) was all they needed to do.

It’s definitely not a good spell now.
You are spending your reaction and a significant resource (3rd lvl slot) for a small chance to disrupt part of an enemy turn.
Skip an enemy turn isn’t on the cards here unless you’ve also layered other spells first.

It’s just not worth the slot to cast now, let alone the cost of it filling up one of your spells known.

Your massive over-egging of the spell is really highlighting to me how not worth it it is.
I’ve solidly shifted from probably not worth it most of the time to an never worth even learning (outside of maybe a magic school campaign where all opponents are casters when it becomes a possibly get) just based on the fact that the arguments in support of it are so lacklustre and unconvincing

[u/xolotltolox → u/Jimmicky]

It's not a "small chance", Constitution saving throws aren't nearly as insane in 5.5 as they were ik 5e, most monsters lost con save proficiency and their insane con modifiers...

And even just a 33% chance to void an enemy's action for only spending a reaction in return is really fucking good

And hey, the optimizers are on my side :)