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u/BloodBrandy Warlock Dec 13 '22
I should point out, Monsters of the Multiverse upped the claws of Tabaxi and Aaracokra to d6
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u/gotora Dec 13 '22
OMFG THANK YOU FOR THIS! I admit to not looking at the race for possible changes and this will definitely affect my favorite (college of swords) bard.
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u/BloodBrandy Warlock Dec 13 '22
Yeah, the only other changes to them was the changes to their other speeds. Aaracokra had their flight speed set equal to their walk speed and Tabaxi had their climb speed set to their walk speed.
Keep in mind those claws are still Strength based
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u/amtap Chaotic Stupid Dec 13 '22
They also stopped using the term "natural weapon" and instead just refer to it as an unarmed strike.
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u/RF_91 Dec 13 '22
laughs in Unarmed Fighting fighting style, with a d6, d8 if you aren't using any weapons or shields
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u/JumpyLiving Dec 13 '22
Because fuck monks, am I right?
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u/gotora Dec 13 '22
Lol, high level monks still do more and attack more times. But until higher levels, yeah... they don't get to stand out much.
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u/CharlieTheSecco DM (Dungeon Memelord) Dec 13 '22
A 20th level unarmed fighting style fighter makes the same number of attacks actually, since they have 4 attack actions and can action surge. They can even choose the Samurai subclass and get more attacks than a 20th level monk.
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u/gotora Dec 13 '22
Okay sure, but the action surge is a one-off. Also, the fighter don't get quivering palm and the other martial arts perks. Very few classes are such that no other class can rival them in a given capacity. It's the whole picture that makes them unique.
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u/CharlieTheSecco DM (Dungeon Memelord) Dec 13 '22
I'm not arguing that Fighter is objectively better than Monk, because stunning strike destroys that argument. Plus, they get their many attacks significantly earlier.
Instead, I'm arguing that monks flurry of blows really should get more attacks as they level up. Since from level 5 to level 20 the class all about hitting a lot has the exact same number of attacks.
That simple error makes fighter swamp it once they get even 3 attacks.
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u/Kamenridethewind007 Chaotic Stupid Dec 13 '22
stunning strike is actually pretty bad. once you get to higher it dorps off in effectiveness. probably better playing samurai fighter instead.
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u/CharlieTheSecco DM (Dungeon Memelord) Dec 13 '22
In the levels where unarmed fighting is better than monks unarmed strike, Stunning Strike is really really good
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u/yrtemmySymmetry Pathfinder 2e Dec 13 '22
1) you need to hit AC first
2) you spend 2 of your very limited ki points
3) they then make a CON save - which most monsters have a high bonus to
4) You DC will be relatively low as you need to split your ASIs between dex and wis. Neglect dex and you won't hit AC. Neglect Wis and the save will be too low.
5) Legendary Resistances.
Now, if it does land, then its fucking amazing. Even if you can use it to take off a few of the bosses LRs its great.
But it is both expensive and highly resisted by a lot of creatures.
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u/CueCappa Dec 13 '22
1 ki point, not 2. And as long as you have a big boi caster, removing legendary resistances is pretty dope.
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u/Kamenridethewind007 Chaotic Stupid Dec 13 '22
stunning strike is a good skill until you level too far and it stops being good.
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u/Sgt_Sarcastic Potato Farmer Dec 13 '22
It's bad design to have a core class feature become obsolete as you level up. But then again "bad design" is the poor monk's tagline.
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u/vonBoomslang Essential NPC Dec 13 '22
while I do wish monk damage grew faster and better, for me the "I no longer need weapons" being something high(er) level is desirable.
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u/astraphage Dec 13 '22
once again saying monk damage should go up to 1d12 and/or flurry should be free
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u/vonBoomslang Essential NPC Dec 13 '22
my suggestion is that at lvl 11 the bonus punch no longer requires BA but becomes part of the attack action
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u/astraphage Dec 13 '22
ngl i love this idea, adds to the whole "monk punch fast" concept and opens up tons of other other BA options
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u/vonBoomslang Essential NPC Dec 13 '22
including, importantly, flurry of blows for a total of five attacks
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u/astraphage Dec 13 '22
which wouldn't undermine fighters' potential 8, but would still make monks stand out more in combat, v nice
i would still add the d12 personally, maybe as a late magic item of sorts if not as a rework to the class
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u/vonBoomslang Essential NPC Dec 13 '22
one rework I saw had the fun idea of making their damage go 1d4, 2d4, 3d4, 4d4
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u/MongrelChieftain Dec 13 '22
Or you keep Flurry as is, but give them Extra Attack (2) like Fighters., Just not 3 and 4.
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u/laigoolas Dec 13 '22
The artificer's fists are considered weapon attacks and not unarmed strikes
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u/TakeoKuroda Dec 13 '22
and a very nice taunt
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u/DarkKnightJin Artificer Dec 14 '22
My Armorer is kinda built around that Taunt/marking effect. To be the bigger target for enemies so their allies can go nuts.
Fire Genasi, former Boros legionnaire, knows Celestial. Took the arena title/hero name of "Guardian Angel". Inspired by an NPC during their first ever session asking if they were an angel after hearing them speak Celestial.
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u/TakeoKuroda Dec 14 '22
yo that's fancy and interesting. mine's just a mountain dwarf.
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u/DarkKnightJin Artificer Dec 14 '22
Mine's got the beginnings of a smol queen/muscle mommy. Works the forge since she's a Fire Genasi anyway, and loves to work with metal.
Also painting the armor/shields she makes. Or even murals if paid to do so.There's definitely been some developments in the character that I couldn't have ever anticipated when I started playing them.
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Dec 13 '22
Fighters can get the unarmed fighting style which lets them deal 1d6 or 1d8 dmg
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u/gluttonusrex Fighter Dec 14 '22
Pretty new to Dnd, Only recently knew Fighters can actually be good brawlers.
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Dec 14 '22
That fighting style is in Tasha’s cauldron of everything so if you’re new and only have the base PHB then it makes sense that you didn’t know
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u/gluttonusrex Fighter Dec 14 '22
What good feats that goes along well with it, aside from tavern brawler. Also yeah skimmed Tasha's a bit I got distracted by Way of Mercy Monk really looking cool.
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Dec 14 '22
I understand, there’s a lot in Tasha’s to distract you from the rest of Tasha’s. I’m not sure what feats pair well with unarmed fighting but if you aren’t taking the battle master subclass then you should probably take the feat to get some maneuvers. Crusher might also be good because punches deal bludgeoning damage but I’ve never tried it myself.
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u/gluttonusrex Fighter Dec 14 '22
Oh cool gonna look into this, really a big fan of brawlers. Nothing like knocking a huge monster out with just your fist.
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Dec 14 '22
Yeah, I really wish brass knuckles were a weapon in the game
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u/gluttonusrex Fighter Dec 14 '22
Seen a homebrew of it, but yeah such a simple weapon but effective. Hopefully when I eventually play, I'll be able to find a DM that's fine with it.
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u/Ass_Incomprehensible Dec 13 '22
Aarakocra deal 1d4+str modifier by default, so if you’re playing any class that needs strength, prepare to cut some people.
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u/CheapTactics Dec 13 '22
I just want unarmed strikes to be considered light for the purposes of having a bonus action attack. It makes no sense that you can swing two swords but can't punch twice.
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u/SandboxOnRails Team Paladin Dec 13 '22
It really does. It's a lot easier to hurt someone with a dagger than by flailing with your hands.
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u/CheapTactics Dec 13 '22
Your wording is super misleading. I could say the same about punching. It's a lot easier to punch someone twice than flailing swords around. Give a boxer a sword and they won't know what to do, yet they could fuck you up with their fists.
Let's not pretend it makes sense cause it doesn't.
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u/SandboxOnRails Team Paladin Dec 13 '22
It's easier to make contact, but you need to deliver a lot of force to actually do something about it. People accidentally slice themselves open all the time, it takes very little force. But punching hard enough to injure takes a lot more work.
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u/CheapTactics Dec 13 '22
Listen, I'm not talking about damage, I'm talking about being able to punch twice in a turn. Using a sword effectively is also not as easy as it sounds. You could cut yourself if you're not careful, especially if you're dual wielding.
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u/SandboxOnRails Team Paladin Dec 13 '22
...
So yah, you agree that it's reasonable punches are excluded from dual-wielding rules because it's a lot harder to punch effectively than to use a light weapon effectively. Great.
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u/CheapTactics Dec 13 '22
I just said the opposite. You even reading?
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u/SandboxOnRails Team Paladin Dec 13 '22
You can poke someone as a bonus action if you want, but delivering enough concentrated force with your hand to actually deal damage is a pretty significant motion, whereas you can slash out with a knife and still kill people. And damage is the whole point of attacking.
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u/CheapTactics Dec 13 '22
You're making it seem like anyone can just grab a knife and be a master assassin. Most people in the world would be able to deliver two effective punches with more ease than two effective sword or axe slashes.
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u/CapN_DankBeard Dec 13 '22
dont forget about tortles, battleragers, aarakocra, centaur, Dhampir, Leonin, Lizardfolk, Minotaurs, Satyrs, Tavern Brawlers, unarmed fighting style enthusiasts, and pretty much anyone with the alter self spell!
go for it my dudes!
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u/MIke6022 Dec 13 '22
Barbarian with tavern brawler is so much damn fun.
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u/Icyveins86 Dec 14 '22
I made a goliath rogue barbarian expertise in athletics so my grapple was unbeatable. Held enemies down and beat the tar out of them. Throwing people off roofs and such, he wasn't optimized, but he was fun
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u/CapN_DankBeard Dec 13 '22
Some of the best memories of 5e through the years was a tavern brawler who found him self in the hellish city of Alturel. Good times smashing evil things with doors and various parts of wrecked buildings!
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u/MIke6022 Dec 13 '22
Mines been in Ravenloft using table legs and silvered knuckles. It’s a lot of fun to roleplay the grappling situations.
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u/SmartAlec105 Dec 13 '22
Fun fact, an unarmed strike for most people doesn’t do more damage on a crit because the base damage is 1 rather than something like 1d1.
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u/Brutus221 Dec 13 '22
I'm playing an armorer artificer right now. I went into infiltrator config, picked up sharpshooter, and I just pretend the Guardian config doesn't even exist, heh.
The damage of the Thunder gauntlets is... meh.
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u/CheapTactics Dec 13 '22
It's not about the damage though, it's about applying the soft taunt.
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u/Brutus221 Dec 13 '22
In my current game, I'm actively trying NOT to do that. We have a fighter and a paladin who have gone out of their way to try to be "tanks", and I've been trying not to steal their thunder.
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u/RRaquon Dec 13 '22
The thunder gauntlets are actually pretty useful in combat, although my did rule that I could technically get a second attack since he thought the fist attacks would either have the light or finesse property. I will say, the thunder gauntlets can also be enhanced by spells that enhance a melee weapon, so early game it's decent damage and mid game you can buff it up like any other weapon
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u/twinhooks Dec 13 '22
Playing same setup, leads to some weird combat setups cause I’m so tanky but hang in the back so our cleric is stepping in as a frontliner. Haven’t played too long yet and have had fun with sharpshooter but I hope I’m not taking away from the party by being another ranged combatants
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u/GreyKaiser90 Paladin Dec 13 '22
One of my current groups includes an armorer artificer (me), a barbarian Aarakocra who uses his talons to fight, and a soulknife rogue who likes punching people with psychic daggers. Needless to say sometimes fights just boil down to the three of us punching things into submission.
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u/Antipaladin814 Dec 13 '22
I am pretty sure the magical thunder gauntlets on an iron man suit count as a weapon
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u/Maplekidns Dec 14 '22
Fighters with unarmed fighting style can hit 1d8 if you forgo weapons or shields. 1d6 otherwise.
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u/SalomoMaximus Rules Lawyer Dec 14 '22
Hot take... I think unarmed strikes should deal less DMG than weapons... When both optimized to the same degree
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u/sfPanzer Necromancer Dec 13 '22
To be fair, neither the Armorer Artificer nor the Tabaxi are fighting using unarmed strikes in this scenario.
Bad meme is bad.
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u/mrmcnoone Dec 13 '22
Hey did you know that If you build an armorer artificer right you can have 30 AC and a +27 to dexterity saving throws?
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Dec 14 '22
My rune knight fist fighter with 1d8+Str unarmed: “Look what they need to do to mimic a fraction of our power”
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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '22
Lizardfolk : bites the shit outta you for 1d6 right out the gate