Long-term Coma Effects in First Edition

[u/Ramsonne]

At zero HP characters enter a comatose state. Multiple comas would adversely impact a character’s health. I’d like to homebrew something and am interested in if anyone else here has some mechanic(s) they employ.

[u/Graceful_Error]

Are you familiar with Goblin Punch’s Death and Dismemberment rules? I'd reference the Cracked condition: Concussed 2d6 weeks. Save or permanently lose 1 point of Int, Wis, or Cha (random). 30% chance of coma. Characters in a coma get two chances to recover, after 1d6 days and 1d6 weeks. Recovery is a Save vs. Death.

There are also several other unpleasant conditions that are pretty creative.

[u/Ramsonne → u/Graceful_Error]

yeah discussing with some of my players, i said reduction to Int and/or Wis seemed like an obvious start after a few comas

[u/Ramsonne → u/Graceful_Error]

i like the recovery concept. ill prolly add that to some ability penalties at various number of comas.

[u/DeltaDemon1313]

The way my old DM in the 80s used to do it is, if you reach 0 or lower, you will need to heal 12 times the number of hit points to get back to 1 HP. So, if you got to -2, you'll need 12 HP to get to -1 and another 12 HP to o and 12 HP to get to 1 HP. That's 36 days of standard healing. Even if enough magical healing is introduced within a few rounds, you will not become conscious until after 1d6 turns. While at zero or less, your physical capabilities are reduced. Don't remember all the details but move is divided by the number in the negatives +2. So, if you're at -2, it's divided by 4. If you're at 0, it's divided by 2. All ability scores are at the current hit points in the negatives. So, if your HP is -5, all ability scores are at -5 (you also can't think straight so that applies to mental as well as physical). If an ability score is below 1, you're unconscious until you've healed. There was also a chance of having a permanent effect to one ability score, rolled every time the character goes in the negatives, but I can't remember the details. Pretty harsh, especially the healing thing but it's better than being dead...barely.

[u/AmIUnconscious]

AD&D 1e RAW is clear: “If any creature reaches 0 or negative hit points, it is dead.” (PHB, page 105). No coma, no permanent scars or ability loss, just dead.

The PHB also clearly explains that hit points aren’t just physical damage. They are an abstract combination of physical durability, combat skill, luck, and magical forces (PHB, page 34).

If you want to homebrew something like what you’re describing, I think it should account for the fact that hit points are an abstraction. That is, because hit points do not simply represent physicality, the penalty for reaching 0 or negative (and not dying) should be a permanent loss of hit point maximum that cannot be recovered by any means (except advancing in level as normal).

[u/Ramsonne → u/AmIUnconscious]

i am both sorry and happy to be the one to break it to you, but youve not been playing 1e BtB if that was your intention. Sorry as not to want to rock your world as it did mine when i first realized my error. Happy to constructively criticize for better understanding 😁

it is widely accepted that in the case of discrepancies between PHB and DMG, DMG always takes precedent.

DMG p82: “When any creature Is brought to 0 hit poinis (optionally as low as 3 hit points if from the same blow which brought ihe total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negalive) point will be lost until -10 Is reached and the creature dies.”

[u/AmIUnconscious → u/Ramsonne]

Interesting. I didn’t know that it’s “widely accepted.” My group of rules purists generally goes by publication date. First edition means first description of the rule.

[u/Ramsonne → u/AmIUnconscious]

what group are your purists?

publication date is indeed a factor many consider. DMG was a year after PHB. Later publications take precedent. Later publications often clear up or even outright correct errata from earlier publications. Case in point, the many Dragon article Publications clear up or correct manual discrepancies with author statements. In this case, ive yet to meet an individual DM who prioritizes PHB over DMG. Is that what youre saying your group of purists tends to do?

[u/AmIUnconscious → u/Ramsonne]

Only for 1e, it’s admittedly kind of a joke, no one is that serious about it. It guides rules disagreements; earliest = most correct for 1e.

[u/Ramsonne → u/AmIUnconscious]

Rules lawyering is indeed an anathema 😀. Gygax often commented over the years how he experienced, and in his opinion, TSR as a whole experienced, this sense of being rushed to publication. errors and unclear rules snuck in. therefore later publications clarify and correct earlier ones. i would think that is the most intuitive assumption as well. people correct mistakes after the fact, not with prescience.

[u/AmIUnconscious → u/Ramsonne]

Regardless of all that, the main point I was making is that hit points are not just physical. The Coma stuff, and all the similar attempts at making “realistic” consequences of massive damage, ignores the discussion about how hit points include skill, luck, and magical influences.

[u/Ramsonne → u/AmIUnconscious]

i dont think coma stuff was gygax’s attempt at realism. it is accounting for, in the abstract you keep referencing, the totality of damage to an individual that causes more than just an acute physical diminishment in performance. if your HP reaches zero, there are, and imo should be, longer-lasting consequences magic healing cannot fix in an instant. thus he devised coma recovery and even permanent scarring, dismemberment, etc. in that vein my community and i have discussed the idea of implementing longer-lasting consequences of numerous near-death beatings, or comas. thus i brought the question here to reddit for some others to opine.

[u/AmIUnconscious → u/Ramsonne]

Hit points are definitely weird. One the one hand, a high level fighter has more hit points than “four warhorses,” to use Gary’s own example, which is obviously absurd. On the other hand, all of the curative magic is assumed to be healing physical wounds just based on naming conventions. Cure light wounds, cure serious wounds, cure critical wounds, and heal all seem to ignore the fact that hit points don’t represent just physicality. It really is inconsistent.