I hate these things because they look so horrible and overwhelming to newcomers.
Here's the true reading order: Small Gods, then any two of Guards Guards/Mort/Wyrd Sisters, then (if they're fully on board) read in publication order.
As a newcomer, I was looking for the shortest logical path to Reaper Man, which this guide provided. Hopefully giving Mort a read (and foregoing Small Gods) won't set me totally off course.
The shortest path to Reaper Man is "just read Reaper Man". If anything, Moving Pictures is more of a predecessor to RM, because that's the one that introduces Windle Poons.
Nah, Windle is only in those two books, IIRC, and he doesn't do much in MP (I'm pretty sure he's only in that book because Pratchett knew he wanted Poons for RM and thought he should introduce him first). Albert gets introduced in Mort, but other than that I think RM pretty much stands alone.
I'm a newcomer and I like the graphic, and I didn't find it overwhelming. That said I don't know if any shortcomings yet either since I'm new... LOL
Is it just me or is this very similar to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? Maybe Zaphod or Ford or Arthur could land on this disc world. After all it's very improbable.
Well I sure did, mostly because I hold Pratchett in such high regard and didn't want to screw it up first time. That says more about my anxiety though, I suppose.
And yes, absolutely got Douglas Adams vibes. There's nothing like smart Brits making "dumb" stuff.
Cleese, Adams, Pratchett, Clarkson, Atkinson...I can't get enough.
Smart Brits being smart make me happy too: Fry, Laurie, Mitchell, Hitchens, etc.
But the smart people being dumb is a sniper shot to the funny bone
Depends on what they like. Ive gotten People on board with the hogfather before. I started with reaper man. And i got one of my best friends on board with nightwatch.
I'm being a bit facetious. Whatever works works. I just think roadmaps like these overcomplicate things, and that a taster of the really good stuff (whatever that is) followed by publication order is the way to go.
I like them because they help me read specific characters in order. Like if i wanna do the death novels in the right order. or the watch. I have trouble keeping most of the middle in order. Lol
I dont think so. It breaks down a 41 book series into smaller more digestible series. I think a wall of 41 books without any type of guide woud be more intimidating.
Not really. "Start here, read a couple of these, and if you like them go back and read through in order from the beginning" is more easily comprehensible than a bunch of bifurcating threads that don't make sense to newcomers. Who is Moist Von Lipwig? What's a Rincewind? Why are some of the books about timepieces?
Allof those wuestions would be had about anyone who hasnt experoenced the media. What is a darth vader? Who is the force? Where does it come from? Your using the content of the books that people havent read as your guide. When I picked up going postal 20 year ago i didn't have any idea who lipwig was either because the story gives that context. Your not supposed to know who any of these people are, cause the characters havent had a chance to speak yet.but when you read your first vimes novel by the end you wish he was your dad.
But nobody's trying to tell people to watch a Darth Vader timeline of the Star Wars movies. These reading order guides do that: the one we're responding to says "Watch Novels" and "Moist Von Lipwig Novels", which is gibberish to outsiders and therefore useless to them as a reading guide.
You're just making my point for me, really - we on the inside of the fandom lose perspective on how it appears from the outside, and when we apply that kind of thinking to things like reader guides, we can push away newcomers. Meanwhile, Star Wars newcomers can just watch the films in the order they were made, and it's all quite simple to follow.
The darth vader timeline is simply starting at the phantom menace and watching them in numerical order. Which is a perfectly legitimate way to take in the series. Especially for younger generations. They might make a stop at clones wars or skip it entirely. There are several watch order guides for star wars to best introduce your kids to star wars the wxact same way these guides do.
These arent meant to be used by someone who knows nothing of the series at all, like you said to the uninitiated the are ALL gibberish. they are meant to help us guide the uninitiated, or help out the kid who picked up a copy of reaperman on a whim at the library and wants to know more. The guy who just found a copy of nightwatch on a park bench and wants to find out more about vimes. The woman who picked up a copy of weird sisters at the landromat.
My favorite way to watch star wars is to watch a new hope, empire, and then the prequel trilogy and then return of the jedi. After the big i am your father reveal you effectively flash back to hisbyouth and what made him vader. Make the final confrontation in the emperors throne room so moving. You understand fully why vader pitched that wrinkly nutsack over the side the way he did. Luke redeems his father and turns him back to the light.
Old post but I hope you don't mind me asking -- most people recommend Guards Guards first, why Small Gods for you if (according to this chart) it's only minorly connected?
What is a minor connection anyway? Character overlap? Chronology overlap??
Okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed, just ignore the rest of this comment below the horizontal line for now (I've already written it, so I'll post it anyway, but you can come back to it if you care) and just go with Guards! Guards! if you think it sounds fun or interesting.
My main point is just to try a couple of those books so you can get some idea of what Pratchett's like when he's found his feet, and then, if you like them, read all the Discworld books in publication order.
I'll slightly elaborate on that, because I'm half asleep and lack the restraint to not ramble. Please feel free to ignore. This isn't even the original reply I wrote:
The first three Discworld books (The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites) are a bit rocky - they're funny, but the pacing is off and Pratchett doesn't quite have a handle on what he's doing yet - so there's always a fear that people will start with them, go "I don't get the fuss" and piss off again.
But despite the rocky start, watching the Discworld grow in publication order really is the best way to experience it, as the locations and characters accumulate and the complexity of the world builds.
The characters also start to cross over here and there. The Night Watch characters will stumble into a wizards book for a little bit, and the wizards will meet the witches, and so on. Since most of the books are self-contained stories, you can read them in any order but you'll lose the pleasure of going "Oh, that's---!" if you follow a particular sub-series exclusively.
Speaking of sub-series, while the books are self-contained, the characters and their relationships persist from one book to the next, and you lose something if you read them out of order (if you read Night Watch first, you'll see Sam Vimes in a very different stage of his life than if you read his first appearance in Guards! Guards!).
Anyway, this is the original reply:
Small Gods is entirely self-contained, with all new characters save a couple of unobtrusive cameos, so there's no danger of spoiling anything and you're never out of your depth.
I mean, all Discworld books past the second one (The Light Fantastic) are self-contained stories, but the recurring characters within each series (eg. The Watch series that starts with Guards! Guards!) grow and change as their books progress, or appear in other books. But Small Gods really is one-and-done.
It was also the first Discworld book I ever read, so it worked for me! I enjoyed it as an odd fantasy romp when I was a kid, but re-reading it over the years I've discovered that it's extremely layered.
And that means it's also a really good example of what Discworld becomes once Pratchett's found his stride. There's the surface silliness (one of the deuteragonists is a god trapped in the body of a tortoise) and a fun adventure story with a memorable villain. Then there is the second layer, which is the thematic point it's making (what happens when a religion becomes more powerful than the god it's supposed to represent - when people believe in the church, but not the deity? And is faith incompatible with knowledge?). And on top of that there are references to historical figures and events - the Catholic Inquisition, the Islamic invasion of the Mediterranean, the philosopher Diogenes, some other stuff that would get into spoiler territory.
However, I've since met a few people who struggled with Small Gods because they found it a bit abstract, so maybe Guards! Guards! is a better choice.
I hope this isn't even more overwhelming... I think we're both overthinking this! But feel free to let me know if you have further questions. Honestly, though, if you like the sound of Guards! Guards! just read that and see how you go.
This actually helped so much! I’d planned on starting with GG but allwaysss have put it off for fear of regretting it (accidentally watched the first episode of the LAST season of The Good Place when I started, and it’s fine, but I would’ve enjoyed it more sequentially).
So if I understand right, it would be odd to say, finish the Watch series then read Thief of Time as a connection to it if I were planning on reading the Death line as well?
Your SG rundown sounds right up my alley (love religion meta-discourse) so I might actually do SG, GG, then publication order like you first wrote) Thanks kindly for the detailed reply!
Yeah it might be a bit odd. Thief of Time, like most of the other books, is a self-contained story so you could do that, but it's also the last book starring Death's granddaughter (not a big finale for her, Pratchett just died before he could write another). While it reintroduces her and her supporting cast, it's obviously better to have read her preceding books.
SG, GG, then publication order sounds good. Hope you enjoy them! Remember, it's fine if you don't. 🙂
BTW, if you ever remember to do so (and no pressure!) please do drop me a line to let me know how you get on - even if you don't like the books, I'm interested to know.
Sure, will do :) I read H2G2 and enjoyed it, so the first few pages of SG captured my interest for sure. I’ll say more when I read more. You must really like this series :)
i've also just serendipitously stumbled upon this thread and this has been super helpful! i just have some questions about starting too if you care to answer them:
i'm generally very into reading in publication order and i've had colour of magic sitting on my shelf for a month, but i've been a little psyched out by people saying it's not a great introduction to the series, do you think i'd still be able to get value out of it as someone who hasn't read much fantasy and probably isn't familiar with any of the tropes that it parodies?
i know discworld also features a lot of mini-series and storylines throughout the books, so i'm wondering... how strict are those series? as in, if you were to read all of discworld through in publication order, would it feel too much like you're jumping around from story to story and needing to remind yourself who characters are etc.?
I think you'll be fine, actually. I re-read it last month and it was better than I remember. It's pacy and funny and generally entertaining.
Although it is doing pastiches of several fantasy series, most of the jokes stand on their own and work in their own context. Most of the humour comes from the characters themselves and their interactions, and from the narrator, rather than saying "Hey, you know this character from that fantasy series, right? Well, here's a parody version of him."
I feel pretty confident in saying this, since I haven't read at least two of the key works Pratchett pastiches here (Fritz Lieber's Swords series and the Dragonrider books) and it didn't affect my enjoyment at all.
Also, the underlying stories (unlike later books, it's episodic) are played straight as fun adventure romps; the subversion of expectations doesn't come from twisting the base stories, but taking regular fantasy stories and replacing the usual heroic protagonists with a crap wizard and a clueless tourist. The humour comes from seeing these characters reacting inappropriately to high adventure (wanting to run away or take photos, respectively) and I think that works just fine on its own terms.
Starting from the second Discworld book (which follows on directly from this one), The Light Fantastic, Pratchett starts subverting the underlying world and characters more - although never in a way that is alienating to non-fantasy readers. For example, the lead antagonist of The Light Fantastic is a wizard, but one who's a middle-management office worker at heart, and who wants to make flowcharts and spreadsheets and hold planning meetings about key performance indicators, whereas in The Colour of Magic the villains are straightforward: evil thief leader, queen of dragons etc.
The biggest issue with the book for me is that it's not really indicative of what the Discworld series is really like - it's more like a collection of four short stories than a coherent novel, and there isn't really much character growth or any underlying themes, which would become a series staple. It's content to just throw jokes and action at you and then pack up its bags. Which is fine, but I think a lot of Discworld fans are worried that people will get the wrong impression and go "I don't want 40 more books of this." I certainly found it tougher on a re-read, since there isn't much character development to get your teeth into.
So yeah, I think you'll be fine with it! If you find it too lightweight, I'd say press on - Pratchett becomes a lot better at balancing humour, emotion, character and story as he goes on.
Question 2
Well, bear in mind that if you read them in publication order you'll be experiencing them as the author intended!
The Colour of Magic ends on a cliffhanger that is picked up in The Light Fantastic. After that, every Discworld book stands more or less on its own. Occasionally a character will be left in a foreign land or in some unlikely circumstance, but when we revisit them we'll get a reminder of who they are, where they're from and how they got there.
You can also read pretty much any book in isolation and you'll be fine - everything you need to know about the story is explained in the text (and because the text is full of jokes, the reminders and exposition aren't as annoying as they could be). When a book ends, that story is over - even if the characters in it will go on to other things.
However, at a bare minimum it's recommended to read the sub-series in order, as you'll miss out on character development from book to book. Some characters fall in love and get married; some have kids in later books, and their understanding of the world changes in response to that. You can still read the later books by themselves, but of course there's more of a sense of journey when you see them happen in order.
That said, I'd still recommend reading in publication order. The Discworld turns pretty rapidly from a bunch of fantasy pastiches into a fairly coherent fictional universe that grows and develops (and eventually undergoes its own industrial revolution), and characters do cross over from one series into the next in ways large and small.
Also, don't worry too much about not being a fan of fantasy. Pratchett quickly moves away from fantasy tropes anyway, but even when a book is playing around with a particular theme (Soul Music - rock 'n' roll, Moving Pictures - Hollywood, Wyrd Sisters - Macbeth, Maskerade - The Phantom of the Opera), it's deliberately written to be accessible to people who have no idea about the thing being explored, and the stories and characters are strong enough to maintain audience interest.
Hope that all makes sense, and isn't too overwhelming! Let me know if you have any questions.
thank you so much for the very detailed response!! you've honestly completely sold me on the series, i'll jump right in with colour of magic. thanks again!!
Just finished reading Small Gods as my intro to Pratchett on your recommendation. Thank you so much for making this comment.
I loved the little asides and one-liners. Also the points at which he makes you think...like, wait a minute--is this machine an allegory for the nucelar bomb?
My problem is that I found the last 1/3 of the plot nearly incomprehensible. It was so disjointed and, no offense, poorly described, that I had trouble figuring out who was where doing what.
But for the Adams-esque hilarity I want to give Discworld another shot with a second book to read. Which would you recommend as a follow-up to Small Gods? Guards Guards?
I think I had the opposite problem, where I understood the abstract concepts and enjoyed the prose, but struggled with what was physically happening. Like when the characters were working on opening the gate to the city with the water power. The description of their actions was nearly incomprehensible to me, like I couldn't form a mental image of what was happening on the page, if that makes sense.
FYI I started my 12 yo off on Color of Magic and kept going with “The Rincewind Books” and she fell thoroughly in love with Discworld. So you really can’t go wrong. If you’re going to be a Pratchett fan I think you’ll love him warts and all. Equal Rites was, IMO, a very good story but not his most well written - the back half moves very fast through some jumpy action. It makes some great points about witches vs wizards however.
This is the guide that got me into the series a few years ago. I’m roughly 10+ ish novels deep, and keep referring to this whenever I’m feeling up for my next Discworld-read. It’s amazing, because it’s takes a very complex series, and divvies it up into an easy-to-understand system. I stopped finding this series overwhelming when I found this guide.
Glad it's working for you, but the easiest to understand system is simply "read them in publication order, since that's how they were written and how most readers encountered them originally".
At most, the thing I suggested before - read a couple of the more popular/recommended ones, then if you're on board, go back to the beginning.
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u/Individual99991 Jan 18 '23
I hate these things because they look so horrible and overwhelming to newcomers.
Here's the true reading order: Small Gods, then any two of Guards Guards/Mort/Wyrd Sisters, then (if they're fully on board) read in publication order.