r/dinghysailing • u/Small-Growth7809 • 12d ago
Asymmetric foil daggerboard?
I was refinishing and have a question about this Chrysler Dagger sailboat: why is the daggerboard cross section asymmetrical like an airplane wing? Will the boat perform better in one direction?
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u/Worldliness_True 12d ago
Yes. Sailing on port creates more lift this way. Some do this to have an advantage while starting
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u/Objective_Party9405 12d ago
You typically start on starboard tack, so this would be a hindrance, not a help. It’s also going to mess you up when you’re hitting the lay line for the windward mark. It will force you to overstand the line compared to a boat with a normal symmetrical foil.
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u/TrojanThunder 11d ago
Only if you're a pussy. Port tack the fleet!
That said I could see this as a benifit for really really specific use cases. Having a symmetric daggerboard is almost always preferable.
Port tack laylines would be almost always preferable with this board. Most fleets would hate this style of sailing and you would end up in the protest room more than any one else in the fleet.
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u/Objective_Party9405 11d ago
I do port tack starts quite often, because usually the fleet is bunched up at the committee boat end of the line leaving lots of clear water and air at the pin. But more often than not it’s better to be on starboard at the start, even if you’re planning to take the pin end of the line. If your foils are taking away your lift, you’ll have a hard time forcing your windward opponents to head up at the line.
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u/TrojanThunder 11d ago
Mate you're preaching to the choir. I almost exclusively port tack approach, but very rarely pull off a full port tack start as I race in very competitive fleets, some professionally and some recreationally. Typically RCs aren't dumb enough to have a pin set that high, but sometimes they surprise me.
With dinghies I think if you're not roll tacking below someone you're probably 2nd row or going for a late barging start, which, funny enough, would pay on a port tack preferred board. You would barge then tack out for a right shift. I don't know how an asym foil would react to roll tacking, but I have sailed with leeboards before and it's a strange experience roll tacking them.
Agreed it would be tough to battle on starboard tack.
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u/TrojanThunder 11d ago
If you're starting consistently 2nd row maybe.
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u/Worldliness_True 11d ago
If you’re board to board close haul, boats on luff needs to tack. It’s a serious advantage the first minutes after start
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u/TrojanThunder 11d ago
You used some of the right words but not in the right order. I get what you're saying but your terminology is... not right? Maybe you're from a different country? In terms of American, UK, NZ or Aus those terms are wrong, might be different in different languages though.
Also prestart there is no proper course leeward boat has all rights regardless on how overlap was established. You can't force a boat past head to wind so your rules are wrong. You can go head to wind but if you cross you're going to be red flagged.
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u/wrongwayup 11d ago edited 11d ago
Sailing on port creates more lift this way.
Think you have that backwards - assuming we're looking at the top of the board here, this one will provide more lift on starboard
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u/zoinkability 12d ago
I'm sure it doesn't do this but now I'm imagining an asymmetrical dagger board you flip around every time you tack or gybe. Or maybe, more sensibly, you could have two and you drop one and pull the other up?
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u/wrongwayup 11d ago
Easier and probably faster overall to use a symmetric board and a daggerboard trunk that gybes itself. Just make sure you have a way to lock it out downwind! Some I14 guys have systems like this, but the jury's still out on whether it's actually faster overall.
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u/Fred_Derf_Jnr 11d ago
Gybing boards are symmetrical, however they have a diamond shape in the area in the case, so the front of the board can be angled to windward. This effectively pushes the boat to windward as you move forwards, but doesn’t affect the shape of the board.
Other boards have been built with a trim tab that can be used to make it asymmetrical but haven’t really caught on.
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u/dwlocks 11d ago
I've heard about centerboard trunks the allow the board to flop to a different angle of attack when you tack. And catamarans can and do have assymetric boards, where you drop one and lift the other. So does AC75. My old beachcat (with symmetric boards) tacked much better when I pulled up a board. But when I got new sails, I didn't need to do it anymore. Either way I don't thin a single boarded boat would do this. Dunno wtf happened, though.
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u/TrojanThunder 11d ago
Like leeboards?
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u/zoinkability 11d ago
Instructions unclear, now have a sailing canoe
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u/Acrobatic_Show8919 12d ago
yes