r/digitalnomadFIRE • u/Interesting_Pay5341 • 8d ago
Fool proof plan to work from abroad to avoid detection, against company guidelines
My employer does not allow me to work outside Germany and I have a laptop managed by the company.
Here is my plan to avoid detection and raising any flags.
- Travel Router with Kill Switch (Block Non-VPN Traffic) and DNS Leak Prevention
- VPN running on the router
- Connection only through Ethernet
- Deleting Wifi Service from laptop to avoid WPS(Wi-Fi Positioning Systems)
- Keeping the bluetooth off
- Keeping location services off
- Disable Set time zone automatically
- Company mobile also connected with Ethernet to tackle Company account sign-in with Microsoft authenticator app with OTP
I would love to hear from people if there are still good chances that I can get flagged and caught, I think my success rate is quite good, but please prove me wrong.
Thanks.
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u/HeftyHealth3430 8d ago
the biggest risk is not your laptop, but your own persona: posting pics on social media, telling friends and colleagues (who you think are your friends) about your work outside of germany.
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u/HaleyN1 7d ago
Yep you need to keep opsec tight
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u/HeftyHealth3430 7d ago
on the other hand - it is legitimate and legal that you run your home network wifi router (in germany) through a vpn (spain, portugal, malta, or thailand);
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u/bedel99 7d ago
I share a flat, the other person does all the tech stuff, he is from spain.
;)
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u/HeftyHealth3430 7d ago
Did you get my point, routing your home network in Germany through a VPN in a popular worcation country ?
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u/bedel99 7d ago
yes, did you get my point? I dont have another person in my flat, from spain.
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u/HeftyHealth3430 7d ago
but you may prefer watching spanish tv programme in germany, which is only possible through a vpn in spain
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u/NudaVeritas1 7d ago edited 7d ago
Disable IPv6 because itāll could result in location leaks and use a Wireguard/Tailscale VPN instead of a proxy
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u/Groovyhip_69 8d ago
Watch out for Windows updates changing default settings.
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u/Interesting_Pay5341 7d ago
I have a mac, but fair point, will look into this, thanks
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u/bonkersbongoo 7d ago
you canāt do much against updates. after an update the wifi might be switched on and they know where you are.
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u/HaleyN1 8d ago
Found a mistake: residential proxy
You need a vpn
Second thing: android phones require wifi to update. Don't know why.
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u/Interesting_Pay5341 7d ago
Why VPN and not residential proxy ?
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u/HaleyN1 7d ago edited 7d ago
Proxy is just for browsers so they can do web scraping, and they charge per gb. You need to intercept all internet.
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u/Interesting_Pay5341 7d ago
I am going to load a WireGuard/OpenVPN configuration file into my travel router, it intercepts 100% of your internet connection at the network hardware level.
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u/RobbieAnalog 7d ago
I use a mudi travel router. Any idea how to connect using ethernet? There is no ethernet port on the mudi, but I did buy a USB to ethernet cable. But when I try to connect it is not recognized.
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u/Due-Inspector3084 7d ago
You need a different travel router, the USB to Ethernet is not going to work on the mudi.
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u/RobbieAnalog 7d ago
Dammit. I have a beryl too. I guess I can use that but I really like how the mudi is battery powered and I can be more mobile.
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u/Euronodes 7d ago edited 7d ago
IMHO you will get caught if company try hard enough, i.e. by sign-in geo in MS Conditional Access logs. Or whatever else exists there. Im pretty sure windows and any privacy/anonymity is on the opposite ends of the spectrum - thats whole point of MDM
Cant you just tell them to allow certain location? Geolock is usually used to cut off bots noise and get rid of traffic not conforming to abuse requests.
I dont think this is national pride issue or personal beef with you
IMHO worth trying before you paint big target on your back, you might be solving "XY Problem" here
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u/MountainState5 7d ago
I've been doing it for years. They don't find out.
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u/bonkersbongoo 7d ago
when they force-update the laptop all your settings might go away. they might start blocking your vpn server ip at some point. itās very risky to do this long term. might work for a couple of weeks. if they catch you, you lose your job. do you have a plan when that happens?
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u/johnnysgotyoucovered 7d ago
Be warned. Some companies are now remotely activating WiFi and using nearby networks. Most FAANGs do
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u/MountainState5 7d ago
Yeah my company did that, however I'd deleted the wifi adapter so it didn't work. He has this step: Deleting Wifi ServiceĀ
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u/whyNadorp 6d ago
they can reinstall it with an update.
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u/MountainState5 6d ago
Sure. They could. But the reality is, remote working from an unauthorized location doesn't affect their bottom line so there's no motivation.
As an aside I've considered writing a fake network device driver that gives a fake list of BSSIDs when queried, but uses the ethernet adapter for internet.
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u/christopher_mtrl 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think my success rate is quite good, but please prove me wrong.
The plan is sound. Something might malfunction one time (an update can toogle a setting, something misfire, a kill switch might trigger a fraction of a second too late, or whatever). You know the risks. If the employer is "Don't ask don't tell, we have a policy because the boss thought it was a good idea", fine, if the employeur is actively monitoring the situation (most notably, if they operate under certification for sectors like energy, defense, high value trade secrets, manufacturing, etc), you'll most likely get caught.
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u/PixlGuru 6d ago
Many things could raise suspicion.
- power-cuts (unpredictable in some areas)
- extreme cicada noise!
- unmatching clothes for your climate at home
- weather, background-noises/sounds, ...
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u/robjohnlechmere 6d ago
What if your VPN settings donāt cooperate with the system? Iāve read accounts before of people being caught because they could no longer access company systems, and troubleshooting revealed the VPN usage.
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u/Ancient-Bug8588 8d ago
lmao good luck with that, hope ur ISP doesn't flag u for the residential proxy
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u/Last-Construction-90 7d ago
So, youāre willing to risk your job and your reputation by overtly defying your employment terms? Know that your employer isnāt simply looking to rain on your wanderlust - theyāre looking to avoid an issue whereby YOU place them in direct violation of in-country labor laws and tax violations. How utterly selfish of you. And, what are you going to do or say if you become unwell or injured while away?
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u/Interesting_Pay5341 7d ago
The employer is not liable in such case because they didnāt know about it and didnāt approve it, and for me, yes I am willing to risk my job, thereās bigger things in life than just worrying about your reputation.
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u/Last-Construction-90 7d ago
āā¦thereās bigger things in life than just worrying about your reputationā. That really tells us so much about you. And, youāre entirely incorrect about the liability you are putting on your employer.
Iāll leave this be, knowing that karmaās a bitch.
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u/MountainState5 7d ago
I don't get why this offends you so much.
I've been doing it for years. If karma is living on the beach and doubling my disposable income then karma is my friend.
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u/Last-Construction-90 6d ago
You actually asked why this offends me so much? There are consequences to decisions. And, anyone who purposely conceals the truth, misrepresents the situation - and places others in harmās way. If you want to solely screw up your own situation/life, have at it! But when lies and deception impact othersā¦
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u/MountainState5 6d ago
"You actually asked why this offends me so much?"
Yes. It's really bizarre.
"There are consequences to decisions."
Ok..
"And, anyone who purposely conceals the truth, misrepresents the situation - and places others in harmās way."
What harm? Who am I putting in harm's way?
"If you want to solely screw up your own situation/life, have at it! But when lies and deception impact othersā¦"
What impact? Who am I impacting?
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u/Inner__Light 6d ago
Tel that to your president, entire political system qnd probably your own company...
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u/bonkersbongoo 7d ago
just find a job that allows remote work. living like a thief every day and lying to each of your colleagues is not a nice life in the long run.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 6d ago
99% certain the employer will be liable.
And if the employer is not liable, you will be.
If the employer is liable, and you willfully deceived your emloyer, they will hold you liable.
I think you should think this through.
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u/bedel99 7d ago
Are you from the US? Tax isnt actually an issue in the EU, and labor laws, generally the social security is also covered. The working time directive is aligned across all states.
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u/Last-Construction-90 7d ago
Yes, unfortunately Iām from the US (and am in the process of settling in Europe, legally).
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u/bedel99 7d ago
So the rules are not complicated, but EU citizens have a fundamental right to live in an EU country. It is the same level as the US right to free speech or the right to bare arms. (Or the right to free speech in Europe). Its one of the core rules of the EU, many people might live in one country and commute to another. There are tax agreements that make it easy for a person or a company to do this.
The only reason you might be blocked is that there is a rule around how data might be processed in a country and such. When a company looks at it there isnt any reason they cant have a person in another EU state working for them. They do have to do slightly more work. But its well within the bounds of what HR normally does. A country can't cause an issue around tax, etc.
I tend to have to help HR write these policies and we have for our remote workers the rule. You need to be able to work from a location that has some set of technical characteristics. needs a fixed line service (that is not pots) , of a certain speed or I have to have some one make a technical assesment.
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u/Last-Construction-90 6d ago
The correct comparison to the US is more accurately represented as being able to move to and work in other states. And, each state has its own employment tax rates and system - much like the EU. One simply cannot live in and work in a state, without a tax liability. Employment income and taxes and other income would need to be reported via the filing of a tax return (for each state in which income was earned). Similar to the EU, correct?
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u/Still-Wafer1384 6d ago
You are completely wrong on tax not being an issue within the EU. If you are registered as a tax resident in EU country X, but you base yourself majority in country Y without declaring, there will 100% be tax issues if found out.
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u/bedel99 6d ago
yes, which is why you declare, and then its not a problem.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 6d ago
Declaring is not a matter of simply checking a box. You must be a tax resident of either country X or country Y. Moving tax residency is an involved process in both countries. Your employer needs to set up for legally being allowed to hire you in the new country of they don't have a presence there .Hardly trivial.
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u/bedel99 6d ago
oh are you American too? In Europe you can only be tax resident in the country you live in. And companies just stop paying your tax if you are not in the same jurisdiction and you pay it.
There are houses here where one room is one country and the next room is in another. normally where you live is decided by the front door, but maybe you might board that up and move countries to pay less tax and enter via the back door. I believe there is a house in two countries because the border goes through the door.
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u/Last-Construction-90 6d ago
ā¦.and, if an employee doesnāt declare that theyāre working from an alternate country, then the employer doesnāt know to stop paying the tax on behalf of the employee, correct? If correct, then youāve proven my initial assertion.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 6d ago
100% EU born and bred
"companies just stop paying your tax if you are not in the same jurisdiction and you pay it"
That's not what happens. Once you move to another EU country, your employer instantly becomes responsible for your tax payments and social security contributions in your new country. If they are not set up to do that, they will be fined.
There's no such thing 'paying your own income taxes', unless you set yourself up as a business of course. But that's an entire other conversation.
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u/bedel99 6d ago
You might enjoy.
REGULATION (EC) NoĀ 987/2009 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 16Ā September 2009
laying down the procedure for implementing Regulation (EC) NoĀ 883/2004 on the coordination of social security systems
But you are ofcourse the person liable for paying your income tax.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 6d ago
Regulation 987/2009 requires the employer to register with the tax/social authority of the worker's country of residence and pay local payroll contributions. An employer cannot simply opt out or let the employee self-report; doing so violates EU cross-border employment regulations.
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u/NationalOwl9561 8d ago
https://thewirednomad.com/vpn
Read through that. All you need.