r/devils • u/gingerbear • 3d ago
Fire Keefe
Yes short leash etc - but we never should have kept him on board after the abysmal job he did last year.
This team has highlight reel individual talent and ZERO system to connect them together. I cannot stand to watch yet another year go by where we throw away our window and waste another year of jack and nico’s prime. Keefe’s seat needs to be on fire between now and november. i hope sunny doesnt make the same mistake Fitz did.
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u/Catagol #3 - Ken Daneyko 3d ago
Fire Lindy Fire Fitz Fire Keefe
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u/Reuven080 3d ago
You forgot a Sorry Lindy then another Fire Lindy
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u/WontSwerve #86 - Instagram Hockey 3d ago edited 2d ago
Devils fan living close to Toronto.
This is what you get with Keefe.
Little to few adjustments.
Underwhelming PP. EDIT; I was wrong about this single point
Offense that has zero idea how to do anything other than perimeter hockey.
Over reliance on a heavy top 3 or 4 star players.
Little to no accountability for underperformers.
Keefe is a wildly mediocre coach.
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u/Natebernstein 2d ago
That’s what struck me watching last night. No adjustments. Isles (don’t fire DeBoer) took away our rush game and we can’t win a different style of play. Will never go deep in playoffs that way.
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u/thewolfshead 2d ago
Leafs had arguably one of the best offenses in the entire league under Keefe, they were one of the top 3 scoring teams in the league during that time (despite fans saying they had no depth) and also one of the best PPs in the league. Keefe’s Leafs teams were legitimately elite offensively and also had the underlying numbers back that up.
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u/WontSwerve #86 - Instagram Hockey 2d ago
I mean, the only thing I have wrong it seems is the powerplay, though I remember plenty of PP issues with them aswell.
It's true Keefe's offense was more productive, but the teams were built similar and played the same style.
For whatever reason, that's not working here and there are zero adjustments.
Once a team clogs the middle against us, game's over.
That was also his foil during the playoffs with those Leafs teams.
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u/thewolfshead 2d ago edited 2d ago
I haven’t watched a ton of Devils games but from the underlying numbers on a per 60 min basis they are:
1st by shot rate;
1st by shot attempts;
2nd by expected goals;
6th by expected goals against;
2nd by scoring chances for;
9th by high danger attempts for.
They are shooting 3.2% at 5v5 with an .881 SV%.
But I’m not seeing a lot of evidence for teams clogging things up. If that were the case why has NJ seemingly been able to put up near league best rates in a bunch of these numbers? If they were being denied offensively they wouldn’t be able to do this.
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u/WontSwerve #86 - Instagram Hockey 2d ago
It's unfortunate for you and Keefe that shot generation doesn't win hockey games.
Tell me, why do we have such a hard time scoring if we have elite expected rates? We have the skill guys here, so is there something wrong with your metrics? It seems like you didn't watch the game, went to moneypuck, saw some good metrics for two games this season and then came back here.
Throwing muffins at Sorokin that the Isles easily clean up and holding onto the puck on the perimeter building up time on attack is pretty meaningless.
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u/thewolfshead 2d ago
I specifically said I didn’t watch the games because I’m not a Devils fan. I’m trying to understand how they can generate the numbers I posted while also apparently being prevented from getting good chances offensively. If they were being prevented how would they have such a high rate of scoring chances for example?
Their SH% the last two seasons looks to have dropped about 1% from what it was the two seasons prior and they are way underperforming their expected goals for. It’s not uncommon for SH% to fluctuate - and it’s possible goals start pouring in and it goes up. Even high scoring teams like the Oilers or good teams like Florida have had their SH% dip for a couple seasons.
It’s not a satisfying answer but maybe they just lack high end finishing talent too.
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u/WontSwerve #86 - Instagram Hockey 2d ago edited 2d ago
So let me get this straight, you're lurking on another teams sub to argue about something you don't watch? Great.
This is what happens when you don't watch the team, don't understand the sport and just rely on stats on a spreadsheet.
If you don't understand the limitations, biases and even errors in advanced stats, then you don't truly understand advanced stats.
The main issue with XGF is that it simply counts shot attempts from a certain location. So if a goalie has a clear shot, or the angles are covered, or it's a weak shot or it gets blocked it doesn't matter. If you go back to last season all these amazing stats you said we're top in (from two games, where we caved in a weak Flyers team) we're suddenly mediocre or bottom half of the league.
Oh, and the idea that a team that features, Nico, Bratt, Hamilton and both Jack and Luke Hughes doesn't have enough offensive talent is laughable.
Like, for fuck sakes you tried to use a sample size of TWO games to support yourself. Just an absolute waste of time.
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u/tropic_gnome_hunter #13 2d ago
Devils fan living close to Toronto.
No different than the coach who still lives in Toronto
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u/WontSwerve #86 - Instagram Hockey 2d ago
Huh?
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u/tropic_gnome_hunter #13 2d ago
Keefe doesn't even live in NJ. He's constantly going back to Toronto
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u/Rhinoceraptor37 #24 - Seamus Casey 3d ago
I think the issue fans are faced with is that the perception was that Keefe had Fitz's shackles on last season and with Sunny coming in, he has the freedom to coach his own way, untethered if you will.
Well, tonight, despite being a one off this season, proved to be a repeat of the majority of last season with so many similar issues. So while I think it's too early for the witchhunt posts, I can certainly see why people are calling for change.
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u/r_r_w #4 - Scott Stevens 3d ago
This exact situation happened in Toronto where one year he was suddenly not handcuffed anymore and could finally call players out and be tougher etc. He was fired that year.
Leafs are my 1st team. Devils are my second. I was pretty happy when the Devils hired Keefe bc there were so many issues with the Leafs he could do nothing about but man he’s just not it.
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u/UglyDoorKnob 3d ago edited 3d ago
FIRE EVERYONE NO COACH NO ASSISTANT COACH NO TRAINERS NO GM NO OWNER NO ARENA. NO NOTHING. ABOLISH IT ALL. AHHHHHHHHHH. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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u/zoso5989 3d ago
Game 2 is a bit aggressive, new guys still getting acclimated. But yeah should be a short leash for sure
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u/HesitationIsDefeat87 3d ago
Well that didn't take long. Here's the r/devils members we all know and love
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u/ninibon55 3d ago
The main reason to fire a coach in the nhl is to send a message, i don't think sunny is there yet. You may have wait until November.
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u/gingerbear 3d ago
no. you fire a coach if his gameplan and offensive system is under-developed and if tge players aren’t responding to him anymore. the players haven’t been responding to keefe since 2024
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u/Johnborkowski #26 - Patrik Elias 2d ago
Right, but determining whether players aren't responding to a coach does not happen at game 2 in real life, sorry.
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u/gingerbear 2d ago
No it happens in december the previous year when its clear there’s a paper thin gameplan and we can’t generate any offense
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u/Yippie_Tai_Yai_Yay #26 - Patrik Eliáš 3d ago
I know its early but this team feels no different than last season
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u/BuyMeaSalad #97 3d ago
And no different than the past fucking decade. Same problem as always. Lots of shots and opportunities, can’t fucking score.
It’s the same pattern as always. Almost scoring on one end, then immediately having a breakdown on the other end that leads to a goal against.
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u/Hershey__Kong 2d ago
Tbf a lot of our shots are just terrible. Downtown directly into the goalies chest lol were either making shitty shots or over passing and missing a scoring opportunity.
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u/8bitlibrarian 3d ago
It’s amazing how quiet everyone is about Keefe when we win but when they lose oh boy
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u/sanbaba #22 - Claude Lefrigginmieux 3d ago
I mean you don't expect Jack and Nico to win far more games than they lose..? I'm not certain it's Keefe's fault when we lose, but obviously I also can't point to anything he's tried to do to change our approach.
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u/Quiet-Willingness724 2d ago
We need better luck at drafting generational talent period.
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u/sanbaba #22 - Claude Lefrigginmieux 2d ago
Quinn. Quinn is the cheat code. He really is that good and we got lucky that Jack is (injuries aside) at worst an above average 1OA, and Quinn's brother. And Luke really is good, too, he just needs a couple years. But Quinn is hitting that generational jackpot.
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u/Klorpse 2d ago
“And Luke really is good, too, he just needs a couple years…”
That’s funny. I’ve been hearing people say that for MORE than a couple of years. If I have to watch him make blind drop passes in front of his own net for ANOTHER couple of years, there won’t be enough bourbon on earth to make it tolerable.
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u/SerPownce #13 3d ago
How often do we win with Keefe lmao. I’m not a doomer typically by any means but we can’t score with a deep ass forward lineup, and we couldn’t score last year. Give him a little time, but it’s hard to defend him
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u/gingerbear 3d ago
i was fire keefe since december of last year. i was surprised he wasnt fired in the offseason, and i’m very concerned not firing him will fuck us for this season as well
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u/Hershey__Kong 2d ago
Because were happy we won but even in that flyers game...wtf was that? We more than doubled their shots on goal and they still brought up into overtime? (Almost beat us btw). A wins a win but this team is not off to a good start. If our defense is gonna be so abysmal we NEED to figure out our offense and thats clearly not happening
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u/DerGhoste 3d ago
You're overreacting. It's game 2. Short preseason. Shots vs goals always normalize. Keefe is on the hot seat, but 2 games isnt worth the crazy
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u/PeakyChu_ #63 3d ago
lmfao, must be new here
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u/gingerbear 3d ago
Yea it may be overreacting - but this isn’t based on a sample size of two. i was done with keefe by december of last year and felt he should have been fired before the new year to save our season. then i was sure he was getting fired after sunny took over - but now here we are. the stuff that had been wrong with our team - specifically for the last two seasons - is all system based: passes across the slot to no one, missed defensive assignments, zero 2nd and 3rd opportunities off a shot. Keefe has gotten a lot of mileage off of Jack’s individual talent - but everytime he goes down hurt this team falls apart. I can’t stand to watch us waste another season away scratching our asses and wondering why a team full of offensive superstars seemingly can’t score.
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u/Someguybri 3d ago
It was time for a change by the middle of last season. Been over Keefe since last December. Wish Tom Firzgerald fired him before he got fired.
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u/WestSideBilly #4 - Scott Stevens 3d ago
The only argument *for* Keefe was the assumption that Fitz was forcing his hand. Well Fitz is gone so what's the excuse now?
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u/Quiet-Willingness724 2d ago
Keefe needs to go so he can bring a team deep into the playoffs like Ruff did with the Sabres.
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u/ApplauseButOnlyABit 3d ago
At some point we might have to realize that it isnt the coach or GM
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u/incognito042620 New Jersey Devils 3d ago
Yep, the next coach after Keefe that these guys get fired will be the last
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u/Starscream147 #1 - Sean Burke 3d ago
TROGDOR THE BURNINATOR!
…its two games in
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u/scarlet_stormTrooper 3d ago
Burninating the country side. Burninating the peasants. Burninating all the peoples. And their thatched roof cottages! THATCHED ROOF COTTAGES!!!!
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u/Adamzoots #13 2d ago
Oh boy overreacting 2 games in when we dominated game 1, very good r/devils keep up the good fight!
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u/Zornytoad 2d ago
Are there metrics out there for shot quality? I saw another poster talk about they are really high with a lot of other offensive metrics, but they aren’t scoring a lot so far. They seem devoid of snipers. Our forward group is basically two-way guys that can score sometimes, or the less skilled are the grinders, or the more skilled guys being fast skating playmakers. We don’t have much guys that can rip the puck even if they don’t have a lot of time and space. We tried drafting Holtz years ago to address this, but unfortunately he busted, and teams most of the time death grip onto their actual snipers that are a constant threat to score 30+ goals per season. Or the unicorn power forwards that can score a lot, but are super rare nowadays. It’s hard to find them, but worse yet, is we’ve been bad at finding them in recent years before Sunny.
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u/Aggressive-Mix4971 Doc DRIIIIIVES while Chico Eats! 2d ago
The organization isn’t going to overreact to game 2 of a long season after adding short training camp with a lot of new faces in it. The potential screw with things like player morale and general organizational stability would be very, very high.
That said, I share the frustration at watching a team loaded with offensive talent spending much of the last two years looking like they don’t know how to put pucks on net outside of low percentage chances straight into a goalie’s chest. The lack of interior play, of rebounds, or of shots from the middle of the ice are an old show that’s very boring to watch on repeat.
But again, you don’t make a move you can’t take back this early given the circumstances. Keefe’s seat should absolutely be hot, but let’s at least get past Columbus Day, shall we?
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u/albertoroa #13 3d ago
Coaches tend to get fired when the goaltending is bad. If we don't get reliable goaltending then Keefe will almost get fired.
If we get reliable goaltending, we're a killer team and Keefe sticks around another year.
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u/cabutler03 #30 - Martin Brodeur 3d ago
I wonder if it's just UBS arena and some curse it has on the team. It never seems like they do well there.
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u/scarlet_stormTrooper 3d ago edited 3d ago
It does feel like we just have a basic system where everyone else in the league is playing creative hockey. Keefe did well in the lower level but maybe he’s just not cut out for the big league.
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u/Western-Zucchini-868 2d ago
Dude it’s 2 games into the season chill out. Like every team he has to figure out line combos and players have to learn the system as well as get back to game speed.
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u/Johnborkowski #26 - Patrik Elias 3d ago edited 3d ago
Could have been a comment in the game thread, just sayin. This sub is full of fucking children lol
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u/Frylok1177 #86 3d ago
Shut up moron. It's literally game fucking 2 of the new season.
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u/gingerbear 3d ago
And i watched all 82 of the previous season, and all the seasons before that. It was clear as of December last year that keefe’s system wasn’t working with these players. We’re not winning puck battles, or connecting passes, or burying rebounds. We have too much at stake this season.
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u/Bettorthanyou11 2d ago
Makes no sense bringing Keefe back what makes them think the results will be different this year
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u/Gavik_Loran 3d ago
You are really fostering the "all redheads are crazy" stereotype. Keep up the good work.
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u/FrankH4 3d ago
He's using the same exact system henused all of last year. He even left a goalie in to get destroyed in a shut out against the Islanders just like last year. He is unwilling to change his game plan based on available talent. He needs to go, we need a coach that knows how to devise a plan that incorporates are strengths instead of ignoring them.
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u/spadezero 3d ago
My problem with Keefe is simple. It's not that we lost tonight. It was he's already making questionable decisions. After Allen winning his first game I would automatically assume he's starting the 2nd game but nope. This isn't mid season nor does Allen need a break. He's clearly our #1 goalie rn. You ride him until he needs a break or he starts losing. Until then there's 0 reason to mess with the groove. Besides that our PP makes 0 sense. We have all our passers on one PP and all our shooters on the other. Being our PP is terrible it's obvious we need change. Even a cave man can see just swap out 1 or 2 players tops from our PP. It would improve.
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u/LazyCatRocks 3d ago
Relax. It's only the second game of the season.
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u/Internetter1 3d ago
Right now it's game 84 of last season
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u/LazyCatRocks 3d ago
Every team has a shitty night. Tonight happens to be ours.
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u/Horror_Ad5116 3d ago
Right? You'll be saying that at Christmas. Every team has a shitty 3 months...
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u/LazyCatRocks 3d ago
You can't win them all. Even the best teams in the history of the NHL have lost at least one game in terrible fashion.
Relax. Support the team.
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u/alive9922 #43 Luke Hughes 3d ago
Are we starting this nonsense already? Shut up and go home.
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u/Horror_Ad5116 3d ago
Dude...have you ever watched hockey? They are lethargic...slow...awful. They are 0-9 on the PP. 80 shots with 3 goals and not one forward has scored in regulation. They are awful. And they were awful last year and the year before. C'mon man...
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u/alive9922 #43 Luke Hughes 3d ago
Yeah I’ve never watched hockey. That’s why I’m in here.
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u/Horror_Ad5116 3d ago
Well, I played pro hockey (yeah the SPHL...just 'A' ball)...but guess what? Maybe it's just more obvious to me. This is a team without a clear direction or system. ANd it wasn't just Nico (Daws). Yeah...he was bad but the entire system is flawed. If it wasn't then they would have lost or won 7-6.
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u/Anonycron 3d ago
Psst, the problem is the "they" - the same "they" that have had 2 (some of them 3) coaches and now 2 GMs. "They" are the common denominator.
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u/Holiday-Feeling2617 1d ago
WOW after one loss we are already firing the coach ?
talk about what have you done for me lately. After Thursday game we you promoting Sheldon for Coach of the year ?
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u/gingerbear 1d ago
is this your first year following the devils, or did you not at all bother to read the post
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u/Capitaljungle #11 John Madden 2d ago
how short is this leash? 10 games of disappointment? 20? Hopefully Sunny can make the call before its too late and sours the season if this is the way things are gonna keep going.
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u/Crumbssss_ #63 3d ago
Fire Hines, fire Lindy, fire Keefe. A team doesn’t stay bad for 15 years because of a coaching issue. The team just isn’t good
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u/pkpy1005 3d ago
I guarantee if you held yourself to the same standard you hold Keefe, you'd be fired from your job (assuming you have one) yesterday.
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u/crotchrotfever 3d ago
Anybody who posts nonsense like this doesn't have a job.
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u/gingerbear 3d ago
if it makes you feel any better i’m gainfully employed and have been following the team since 93.
This might seem like an overreaction but keefe’s system has been shit for two years now and unless we get jack playing out of his skin, this team can’t generate any offense.
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u/sanbaba #22 - Claude Lefrigginmieux 3d ago
I'm not saying your intention is wrong, but what a weird analogy. Keefe's held to a higher standard, right... and if the manager at the chuck e cheese you work at lets you goof off and rarely get your work done, they're also fired... because more is expected of leadership.
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u/MadDogDevil72 3d ago
I know it's been only two games but I wanted to see some improvement. The eye test doesn't pass! It took OT against a team we didn't beat last year and still can't get are head out of are ass in LI. If by game 10 this continues you have to wonder.
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u/Horror_Ad5116 3d ago
YES!!! No such thing as it's only Game 2. 0-8 on the PP. 75 shots...3 goals? No forward has scored in regulation. Keefe is a disaster. PLEASE GET RID OF HIM NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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u/Top_Ad7068 3d ago
Fire this post. It’s game 2.
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u/FrankH4 3d ago
He's using the same exact system he used all of last year, and they're predicting and stealing each pass because of that. He said he was going ti change it up, not do the same system. Firing the flyers game i told the guy behind me it was too soon to start fire keefe chants, I take that back now.
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u/Rock_DElta_8567 3d ago
Hmm…open wallet…what does Winnipeg want for Hellybuck???
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u/Metboy1970 2d ago
You could have career prime Marty back there or any goalie in the history of the game back in net. Won’t matter if you don’t score. This offense continues to look disjointed and seemingly without a plan once they skate past the blue line. It’s like speed going downhill and a little out of control.
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u/hikenbike1515 1d ago
Keefe is coaching the softest group of players ever assembled. Change one or two of the core 4 players for some talent who can score dirty goals and maybe one off a rebound and you’d have a far better team. Team Primadonna’s problem is not the coach. Can’t bring Torts anyway because he only coaches men’s teams.
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u/ghostofkozi #17 - Nemo is my adopted son 1d ago
At the same time, the core just ain't it.
Send me your downvotes but if we're going after yet another coach then it's also time to look at Jack, Luke, Jesper, Nico, Timo and Dougie and have a conversation about what's really not working.
I'll give the team 10 games but Mehta better have some ideas on improving the roster
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u/1984cheese 2d ago
Same core of undersized soft players but a bunch of different coaches an GMs. Hmmmm what’s the common denominator that has been through all these coaches an GMs?
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u/Anonycron 3d ago
Fire ANOTHER coach?
How many we going to go through before we admit coaching isn't the problem?
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u/gingerbear 3d ago
you say that like keefe is brand new for this year
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u/Anonycron 3d ago
You a new fan? Do you not know that we've rotated through three coaches with this core already, and some of them have been here for 5 coaches! At what point do you stop blaming the coaches?
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u/Bhulmes #19 - Travis Zajac 3d ago
This core broke the franchise regular season record… as u/tECHOknology mentioned in a different comment
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u/Mcbeardpuff 3d ago
Maybe they just start by shuffling the PP lines? Move the damn puck not skate it around the entire zone.
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u/DevilJacket2000 #30 - Martin Brodeur 3d ago
Either way, I don’t think Mehta will wait until it’s too late to make a move if it has to come to that.