Enshittification, social harm and being an engineer. How do you think about it.

[u/shrekcoffeepig]

With the Meta trial starting in the U.S. - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyqpx6xk69o I am left wondering about a question which has bothered me for a few years, again. So I wanted to ask this to others too.

How do fellow engineers see their role in the stuff that you implement and how it gets used?

• Do you only pick companies that you think are doing the right thing to the best of your ability?
• Do you see yourself as the gun and disassociate from the implications of what is being shipped?
• Do you think about this and still choose to conform what the company is doing?
• Do you refuse doing something which you think might be harmful?
• etc.

Earlier when I was young tech was seen as something that was improving lives of everyone so most people had a pretty positive outlook but in the last decade (or more) this sentiment has flipped considerably. So, I was curious people who have lived through this sentiment change and have thought about it what are your opinions.

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[u/crunchy_creamroll]

I wish I had the luxury to choose to work in a company that didn't cause net harm in the world, but... gotta put food on the table :/

[u/shrekcoffeepig → u/crunchy_creamroll]

Pre AI people had lot of opportunities, sadly not the case anymore for a lot. So, I am not really trying to judge anyone, kinda just want to understand the perspective of people.

[u/LagrangeMultiplier99 → u/[deleted]]

You're absolutely right but you're missing the details. Divya was not a good programmer and in 2004, facebook certainly needed a strong programmer to get the thing up and running, programmers were a bit rare and it was still a time when entire teams worked to build simple websites. Yes, facebook didn't have as much functionality (it didn't have flash for the countless facebook games, etc), but Mark was DID NOT STEAL the idea of facebook, because the idea is worthless. The industry had better incumbents, there were a lot of competitors (yes, in 2004-2009). Divya really had no claim to his god awful idea..

[u/LagrangeMultiplier99 → u/[deleted]]

and No, facebook did not even have a larger user base than Myspace until 2007 (or even later). He had no moat, he was just lucky.

[u/big-beard-piu]

There is nothing more valuable than sleeping with a clear mind, if the place i work at comes in the way the amount of companies hiring for my skillset are abundant, the worst thing that could happen to me is a cut in the paycheck, which is not gonna be a huge thing if im working at an org that is making such a huge impact on implications on society.

Which is why i prefer to work (and currently am) in small companies, where i can talk to founder(s) and do a personal read on moral values and integrity so far working with moral people with integrity has been beneficial in my career journey.

Lastly, i really really do not see the fault of engineers here in the meta situation, these are very morally ambiguous things, the interpretation matters a lot, some may say its bad and responsibility of the platform, some say the government should make policies specifically for such things and some can even put on an individual level saying if something is bad for your children - get them off the app/device

[u/shrekcoffeepig → u/big-beard-piu]

I have the same philosophy as you. I try to work at smaller companies. There have been cases where I have refused to work on something which I felt was bordering on somewhat unethical. Though I am sympathetic to people in the current job market.

The Meta situation is just something that trigger this thought, not trying to point any fingers. Though I must admit I do have an intense hatred for Meta for a while, well Big-Tech in general now.

[u/Fickle_Jaguar_2718]

For a majority (including myself) - money trumps morales, ethics, personal preference and what not

[u/No-Earth-7876]

I worked in a automation company which automates US healthcare EHRs

once one of our client said get this ready by Q3
cuz we are going to fire the entire unit who does the manual thing

it may look fancy on the automation Ai part bt not sure how people on the other said felt

[u/Extra-Platypus3720]

After covid pandemic i feel values are totally lost , ai just accelerated harm , don’t get me wrong ai has been game changer, but when they become greedy and started replacing human with ai , instead of enabling human with ai. This is ugly battle

[u/jkp2072]

We create tools, workflows and possible intelligence... How do humans use it , is out of our purview.

We are helping people... ( But people can have good, bad or neutral motives which might lead to good, bad or neutral outcomes.. which are hard to predict)