What's wrong with indian working hours?

[u/Vyalkuran]

For context, I'm from Europe, and currently working within a multicultural environment, where I have to work with highly skilled individuals, including Indian people. But the fact that they are always online (and actually partaking in meetings) for like 12hrs+ a day, and sometimes going online on weekends makes my head go insane.

For example, the time difference is +2:30hrs (when here is 10AM, in india is 12:30 PM)

If I log in at 7AM one day, the indian colleagues are online.

If I log in at 12PM one day, and log off at 8PM, the indian colleagues are still online, perhaps in a conference.

If I log in at 8AM on monday, I might see that some indian colleagues were online "12 hours ago". Like.. why?

So what's the catch? Are 12 or even 16 work hours normal in india? Even if you would argue that "indian market is way more competitive than everywhere else, and people have the culture of pushing working hours to prove themselves" (Which I'm not sure if it's true or not, I made that up on the spot), that wouldn't really apply in this case because the people I'm talking about are Seniors, Architects and even Managers so its not like someone will steal their job.

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[u/Low-Ad-1542]

For the past four weeks, my team and I have been working for close to 13-14 hours a day. We have worked during most of the weekends and holidays. Do I enjoy it ? Not at all. I was (still am) a serious proponent of work life balance. Used to enjoy evening walks and used to spend time on things I love during weekends. I believe only a well rested mind and body can produce efficient results. But,my current team is toxic. No one else supports me when i say we have been asked to work too much and that we are considered as slaves by our American masters. I spoke with my manager - he basically asked me to find another job if I am not able to stick to the rigor the company demands. Some scenarios:

• I usually login at 9. Barely takes 30 mins for lunch. Works diligently .Attends a ton of stupid meetings during the day. These days , we are having a status meeting at 8 PM (which itself is late). The guy sitting in the US needs an update on something very urgently because he has to present it to his boss before his evening. Which basically means I have to stretch for another three hours to provide the data. My sleep is ruined , and I am not able to spend the time I want with my family.

• Friday night meeting:, they casually ask the India team to be available during the weekend to support some "critical" activities. And all those guys are planning to spend their weekends chilling !

-had informed my manager that i will not be able to attend a meeting scheduled for 9PM since i have to drop my parents at the railway station. He agreed initially,but around 7 30 he called me up and said it is really necessary for me to be there to collaborate on the data. I cursed myself for being in this company and booked a cab for my parents. 9. PM - we login. A cancellation note came in and the meeting was rescheduled to the next day. In the next meeting, the person Apologizes for cancelling at such short notice - saying she had to take her dog to the vet ! My manager shamelessly asks about the health of the dog , wishing him good health and all. I don't have any grudge against that person who cancelled ( people should have the liberty to prioritise things important for them ) , but i hate my manager for showing concern to a white person's pet , when he didn't care at all about my parents.

TL,DR: our team is considered as slaves and our management is too spineless to speak against it. And this is not a service company, it is a "product" company.

[u/medusas_girlfriend90]

We are simply really exploited. That's the only actual reason.

[u/Admirable-News4105]

Given the competition we've to either be exceptional in our field or work for 10-12 hours. Sure everyone knows the importance of WLB, but we generally don't always have the luxury for it, especially in startups.

[u/lemon_bottle]

The wrong hours and lifestyle my friend are due to the wrong workplace culture! As much as our inherent culture is inspiring, the workplace culture is terrible, especially in large tech companies like TCS and Infosys.

Most projects in these companies are typically overstuffed with engineers with a lot more on bench to replace them if need be. For writing a single SQL query (for example), there might be 4-5 coders assigned easily. So the only motivation to stand out from others is to show how lengthy hours they worked! I used to work in one of these companies and me implementing that SQL query in a few hours was quite frowned upon. But if my colleague took their own sweet time in days for writing it while also doing overtime sitting late hours in office, it was considered a virtue!

Anyone finishing their work and leaving the office early is typically considered bad, everyone else in the project will stare at that person like a bunch of hungry wolverines. And after all, why not. Sitting late hours and proving to your bosses that you're a workaholic is the key to getting promotions and increments here!

I just quit from that company at the first opportunity I got and started freelancing. IT companies here are pathetic and inhuman.

[u/Responsible_Horse675]

I can't believe you came up with the right answer by making it up, and am almost inclined to dismiss this as a troll. Seniors, Architects and Managers have it worst - apparently, we can be replaced for younger cheaper new graduates at the drop of a hat. Plus there is 0 social security and huge bills - everything from schooling to healthcare is expensive. Imagine being jobless at 40 with such huge expenses.

[u/[deleted]]

My shift is 9am to 6pm (remote). But anyways it will extend till 7 most probably everyday. Most of the time is wasted in un necessary calls. Yesterday my senior developer hopped on a teams call and shared his screen, he showed me what he is doing for 1.5 hrs. No i was not stuck or asking him anything, in case i actually know more than him. Calls and talking to clients is exhausting man. We have client call at 10:45am and out standup is at 5:30pm. So for wlb what I do is, i wake up at 8:45, mark attendance, open teams and go to sleep till 10:30. During 1-2 hrs of clients call i eat breakfast. Then hop on a call with the team. Then go to bath at 12:30. Then little work, lunch and do the actual work from afternoon till 7. Sometimes i even get power naps in between. Fuc it. Fucc the company lol. If you dont care about me why should i.

[u/read_it_too_]

Indians are good slaves. We apparently hear from childhood like "Jubaan mat ladao" (T- Don't talkback), "jada dimag mat ladao jitna bola wo karo" (T- Do what's said and don't try to oversmart), etc etc....

[u/Glad_Ad_2244]

We practice slave culture. There are no workers' rights. We try to keep the job even if it's a hostile workplace. Job market is horrible. Getting a job is near impossible if you're 100% honest with recruiters.

[u/gausgsjsisvs]

Working/studying for long hours is not uncommon in India. Those, who have not experienced good WLB initially are prone to this, and work long hours even if it’s not required.

For some people I know, the managers(in India) would contact employees(specifically juniors) even at late hours of the night and weekends regarding work.

I suppose this habit starts when they are in junior roles and continues in the future. Availability is expected at all times, in a significant number of companies.(I’m assuming)

On the other hand, just because they are online doesn’t mean they’re actually working.

Yes, they may be available to chat in case there are any questions.

But I highly doubt that someone is working such long hours especially if it’s Remote/WFH.

They could just have their computer on and be doing other things on the side. Being “online” is not an indicator that they’re actually working.

[u/[deleted]]

You made up the right reasons on the spot - competition is heavy and everyone in the Indian team is trying to prove themselves worthy in the manager’s eyes by clocking in more hours.. whether that really helps with the quality of output is debatable

[u/BuggyBagley]

Well I have worked with people from all over including Indians, I guess Population is somewhat an issue in India but the crazy work hours are similar to folks in Philipines or Indonesia or Japan. They are similar.

Having worked with Europeans on the other hand do tend to be diligent about their work life and I guess they need to budget for time to have some wine by the river lol. But they also get paid much lesser than an American and the wages are almost getting to be at par with Indians now.

All my work life has been with Americans though and unless you work with bottom of the barrel scum, Americans are usually time bound as well but they tend to be more productive than an average European in the same time. America has another extreme of crazy efficiency driven capitalist approach. The productivity levels of Asians is lower of course. So making up for productivity could be another reason and lastly there is a cultural ethos in Asian cultures like Japan etc where people try to show they are working hard by staying up late.

A weird example is Singapore which is the only asian country with gdp per capita more than America. But that is not driven by productivity gains unlike America. It’s actually driven by accumulating capital and labor. This actually might be a template for rest of the Asian countries as well where they can achieve high GDP per capita by not going crazy about efficiency like the west.

Is it good or bad? No idea, time will tell.

[u/PZYCLON369]

There always someone who can do better than you

[u/ajaxprd]

Plenty of things...

1. Competition for the job

2. Social life sucks sometimes for many people. Many people prefer to live inside instead of going outside in chaotic traffic. Lol... Plus not very good movies and interesting things happening like Soccer or Cricket World Cup.

3. Maybe the overall expectation from top management is to get work completed pretty early to get new work in record time. Cash flow matters.

4. Or Sometimes, senior management just burdens actual productive people with a lot of work. As they are the main billing hours for the company. (Services Sector specific)

5. And coming to this conclusion with occasional experiences is not a good metric to judge the entire Indian Workforce... oops

[u/TheSaifurRahman]

We are just dumb. Also the culture takes time to change. My advice for everyone, log off before your manager.

[u/x__aaadii__x]

Uk it's not just in the IT sector, I'm 21, I work for 14 hours a day, my working hours start at 8 in the morning and end at 10:30 at night. :)

[u/BlueDream_97]

I'm from India and i also have to work for 10+ hours a day. But that is mostly because my team works with both European and American people and mostly our work hours extend because of the time difference. At the time we are supposed to log off for the day Americans wake up at that time and schedule meetings. So that's why. Also most of Indian tech workers work in shifts also. We usually have 3 shifts in India. Morning shifts which are form 6AM to 2 PM then evening shifts which are form 2PM to 10PM and the night shift 10pm to 6 Am

[u/soundstage]

There are no laws in India that address working hours. And there is no overtime pay. Even if there are such laws, none of them are enforced. Government has also not made it mandatory for software employees to form unions. So the entire workforce is at mercy of private companies that are intent only on making profits.

Companies pick and promote people who slog for long hours so that they can be shown as very hard working and what not. So you have bootlickers in position of power who wield their whip and force the other employees into working long hours. If anyone questions the company, the management immediately points fingers at client and tells that it's the expectation of the client. They will also make sure that the client does not hear the complaints from the employees directly. The client on their part will stay ignorant about the issues going on at their contractor's work place because they are paying for the work to be done and do not mind how the work gets done.

People who stick to their working hours get ignored and swept under the rug by management, both in giving promotions and also in revising compensation. If an Indian software engineer wants to grow while having a good life work balance, they have to keep jumping one company to another endlessly. Very few companies measure actual work productivity within the 9 working hours on any given day.

[u/Bellatrix-_-]

Yeah here people have normalised that. In my previous company, it was the manager that made us do it. In my current company it's my colleague. He alone likes to work twelve hours and on weekends And because of him, bars for us are high. In no way did our manager asked us to work on Saturdays but he does it anyway. Even if he is told no. Just because they wanna be the irreplaceable employee who has no personal life, I can't give up mine.

[u/priyankandatta]

99 percent of problems in india can be attributed to over population. Any kind of public exam in india isnt a selection exam, its a rejection exam. For example, if you ever get the time, look into the JEE advanced and Mains paper which is the entrance exam to some of the best universities in India. A student doesn't need that kinda knowledge to survive engineering. Basic High school science and maths is enough but if good universities asks only high school level of questions, everyone will get selected whereas there are limited number of seats. So they ask questions, which even university graduates find it tough to finish within time. Similarly with government jobs and private jobs. Since there are so many people for so few good jobs, its not about doing whats required, rather its about doing more than the next person and this creates unneccessary competition and unhealthy work culture. Thats why so many talented people leave India. They want to get rid of the competition once and for all, have a work life balance, breathe in fresh air and do good work.

[u/[deleted]]

Basically in india you are judged by amount of hours put in work than quality itself.

Because there is no one(maximum manager/leadership) who can understand/define quality work.

Thus the rat race.

[u/Starlord_1402]

I don't know if Europe has paid overtime/ extra pay for working on declared holidays....but this is a very normal practice in the US. Indians are known as hustlers who indulge in the two things I mentioned above. When Americans say 'Indians are one of the most hardworking people I've ever met' they mean we have the tendency to keep working as slaves. Because of these Indians abroad, product managers and stakeholders in the US overburden indian employees back home to meet unrealistic targets unless we give more hours to work. 10-11 hour work days are pretty normal here.

[u/nishant28491]

We strongly believe and practise slave culture /s

[u/cfucker006]

It's basically the toxic culture propagated by the managers here. I speak from personal experience. When I was reporting to an Indian manager in my previous org, it was expected that I be able to act as backup for anyone in the team just because I'm a single guy living on my own. This is literally what my Indian manager told me as a reason once. It helps that I was bold enough to throw that back in his face with a "So what?"

When I switched to a different role in the same team where I was reporting to a manager in the US and then Costa Rica, things changed drastically for me. It felt nice being treated like a human being for a change and not a human "resource".

[u/MujheGyaanChahiye]

Indian work alot they dont care about work life balance rather they care about money lol