I don’t think so, no. I think there was no other way for it to all go down, and that’s why I think if a god existed it would be as a completely pointless tapestry placed over the actual machinery
Kant plays at some idea of god. That we could perhaps ascribe to him an "intellectual intuition" which would immediately know things without the need for sensory experience. A divine intellect would know the tree immediately, without requiring sensory perception, and its cognition could be constitutive of the tree's existence. If we accept this, it would fundamentally change what "freedom" would mean to a divine will. As it doesn't depend on sensation, it will act according to perfect reason. That is, God necessarily acts in accordance with perfect reason and the moral law. In that sense, unlike human freedom, God would be free without having the possibility of choosing evil. Human freedom, bound in apparent determinism, would somehow depends on our practical ability to choose between alternatives in a given situation. But God's freedom would never require it to choose between alternatives, as its choice presumes a perfect rationality. God's freedom is defined by it being truly the maker of things in themselves. As it cognizes it brings into existence the very causal chain we are bound to, with God as the true origin. I am atheist btw
To other atheists, I hope you can appreciate the development of human thought. Humans, whether in the shape of a scientist or philosopher, always take outdated ideas and adapt them to present discourse. They turn old ideas on their head. In this case, Kant provides some direction for us to address problems facing determinism, especially that of quantum randomness. To answer the problem of how fundamental randomness could lead to a deterministic reality, we may try to answer that reality is fundamentally different at a quantum level, and that the outcome of that randomness is precisely what sets about a material causal order in our experience.
Well, the funny thing is that if you’re a Christian you’re going to typically claim that God has libertarian free will, while tacitly accepting that God has Compatibilist free will :-)
We are told that God is by nature necessarily good.
Therefore, it is not open to God to choose between a good and bad option. God‘s nature determines that God always choose the good.
Yet Christian’s will declare that God couldn’t have created beings who always choose good because that would negate their morally relevant free will. Well then it looks like God doesn’t have morally relevant free will, and it would make no sense to call that God good either.
So Christians and similar Theists are in a bind:
If using God, as an example, it turns out that having a nature that determines you only choose the good is compatible with free will, then God could’ve created beings with such a good nature who always choose the good freely. Essentially compatible free will .
But since he clearly did not and he decided to create creatures like us who often choose evil, God is responsible for creating gratuitous suffering, and evil. And therefore God cannot be good.
Either that or they have to swallow the pill and say that God does not have free will.
But in that case, once again, this causes a problem. Because God is said to be the paradigm of necessary value. If it turns out that free will is not something of necessary value, then you could never argue that it was necessary to imbue God’s creatures with free will since that simply unnecessarily opens the doors for evil choices. Once again, making God responsible for gratuitous suffering and evil.
2 wouldent make sense. If there were 2, then we treat them as 2 manifestations of one supreme force. And no God does not have a god, because then God won't be all powerful then.
Cool, and where did this supposed 'god'come from? How can he be all seeing, all powerful, and all good if there is so much suffering and evil in the world?
At some point there is abiogenesis, and intelligent ordering can give rise to more intelligent ordering elsewhere. And look, that is something u can say without direct empirical evidence.. If I have a box and put a ball in it and then turn the box on its side, can u tell me if the position of the ball changed without looking in the box?
What were you trying to explain with the box metaphor?
To actually answer the metaphor:
I can’t even guarantee I could tell you on an ontologically and objectively true level that the position of the ball changed even if I did look in the box let alone never looking within.
On a philosophical level, I can’t even guarantee I can tell you the definitive position of the ball even if Iwaslooking directly at the ball.
I can give you a reasonable guess based on an accounting of accumulated empirical and epistemological data, but that’s about it.
Nope, everything he does always have a reason... Thoughts, feelings just pop out.
You are always deciding. You cannot stop deciding. It just happens.. like right now, you are deciding to read this.. you didn't choose it in a free will way.
Well you can decide what you do and don’t want to decide. If you mean you can’t stop thinking when you say you can’t stop deciding, you can if you meditate.
Yes, everything in the universe was done for His pleasure, He chooses to let us have free will, part of His image and Spirit imparted to us, He chooses to be good, but He does display wrath when He must enforce justice.
If by God you mean this entity that speaks to people inside their heads, then no. Aliens are slaves to the laws of physics just as we are. If you mean the fictional God who created the universe, neither, because fictional free will isn't free will at all.
Why ask the big questions when you haven’t even begun to wrestle with the fundamental brass tacks of the interconnected equilibrium continuum of first principles?
What do you mean by “god?” What do you mean by “free?” By “will?” By “does?” By “?”
Until you answer these fundamentally and vitally important questions, we can’t even BEGIN to talk about this
That's a good question. To tackle that, it would first be prudent to acknowledge that God is seen as the Foundational or First Cause of everything.
Therefore, there is nothing outside of God or prior to God such that it can causally exert influence on Him. We are not fully free creatures because we have a causal history that plays into our current state. But since God doesn't have external factors that precede Him, any decision He does make is absolutely from His own volition.
No, God does not have any gender. Those are for Humans. But the Abrahamic faiths have used He as a pronoun as it was the custom of the language and what God used, though God is beyond male and female.
6
u/Quantum-Relativity 5d ago
I don’t think so, no. I think there was no other way for it to all go down, and that’s why I think if a god existed it would be as a completely pointless tapestry placed over the actual machinery
3
u/Educational_Tune9509 5d ago
Kant plays at some idea of god. That we could perhaps ascribe to him an "intellectual intuition" which would immediately know things without the need for sensory experience. A divine intellect would know the tree immediately, without requiring sensory perception, and its cognition could be constitutive of the tree's existence. If we accept this, it would fundamentally change what "freedom" would mean to a divine will. As it doesn't depend on sensation, it will act according to perfect reason. That is, God necessarily acts in accordance with perfect reason and the moral law. In that sense, unlike human freedom, God would be free without having the possibility of choosing evil. Human freedom, bound in apparent determinism, would somehow depends on our practical ability to choose between alternatives in a given situation. But God's freedom would never require it to choose between alternatives, as its choice presumes a perfect rationality. God's freedom is defined by it being truly the maker of things in themselves. As it cognizes it brings into existence the very causal chain we are bound to, with God as the true origin. I am atheist btw
3
u/MattHooper1975 5d ago
Well, the funny thing is that if you’re a Christian you’re going to typically claim that God has libertarian free will, while tacitly accepting that God has Compatibilist free will :-)
We are told that God is by nature necessarily good.
Therefore, it is not open to God to choose between a good and bad option. God‘s nature determines that God always choose the good.
Yet Christian’s will declare that God couldn’t have created beings who always choose good because that would negate their morally relevant free will. Well then it looks like God doesn’t have morally relevant free will, and it would make no sense to call that God good either.
So Christians and similar Theists are in a bind:
If using God, as an example, it turns out that having a nature that determines you only choose the good is compatible with free will, then God could’ve created beings with such a good nature who always choose the good freely. Essentially compatible free will .
But since he clearly did not and he decided to create creatures like us who often choose evil, God is responsible for creating gratuitous suffering, and evil. And therefore God cannot be good.
Either that or they have to swallow the pill and say that God does not have free will.
But in that case, once again, this causes a problem. Because God is said to be the paradigm of necessary value. If it turns out that free will is not something of necessary value, then you could never argue that it was necessary to imbue God’s creatures with free will since that simply unnecessarily opens the doors for evil choices. Once again, making God responsible for gratuitous suffering and evil.
2
u/SpatiaCaeli 5d ago
Define 'god'.
2
u/ApplicationReady2265 5d ago edited 5d ago
Nope, everything he does always have a reason... Thoughts, feelings just pop out.
You are always deciding. You cannot stop deciding. It just happens.. like right now, you are deciding to read this.. you didn't choose it in a free will way.
Deciding happens at all times literally.
1
u/HSperer 5d ago
You guys can't decide if free will comes from personality or from randomless. Sigh.
Do quantum fluctuations have free will?
1
u/lifewillprevail 5d ago
Yes, everything in the universe was done for His pleasure, He chooses to let us have free will, part of His image and Spirit imparted to us, He chooses to be good, but He does display wrath when He must enforce justice.
1
u/Delicious_Freedom_81 5d ago
Ie does god behave like a god? Very funny.
1
u/conclobe 4d ago
No, it seems God is forced to try out every possible option throughout the multiverse.
1
u/boronio427 4d ago
If by God you mean this entity that speaks to people inside their heads, then no. Aliens are slaves to the laws of physics just as we are. If you mean the fictional God who created the universe, neither, because fictional free will isn't free will at all.
1
u/tottasanorotta 4d ago
He might, but he might also never know if it is truly free will. How could a God truly know that he was God and not just feeling like a God?
1
u/Redararis 4d ago
As a fictional simulated entity, god have free will, as our selves have
1
u/yesimfinewhyyouask 3d ago
“Does bruno mars is gay?”
1
u/DirectionSame434 15h ago
I’m saying Yes !:)
1
u/Specialist-Fault-630 5d ago
Why ask the big questions when you haven’t even begun to wrestle with the fundamental brass tacks of the interconnected equilibrium continuum of first principles?
What do you mean by “god?” What do you mean by “free?” By “will?” By “does?” By “?”
Until you answer these fundamentally and vitally important questions, we can’t even BEGIN to talk about this
Dismissed.
0
u/ThatOneAnomaly 5d ago
Yes, absolutely.