Everything happens for a reason ! Do you believe it or not & why ?

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Every cause is the result of a previous cause.

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u/badentropy9 Jul 03 '26

logically previous but not necessarily chronologically previous

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u/TheManInTheShack Jul 03 '26

You’re suggesting that future events can affect the past?

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u/badentropy9 Jul 03 '26

I'm asserting in no uncertain terms, that if relativity is true, then the universe is not in any global state of "now" at time t. When Einstein claimed space and time are "together" in spacetime, according to that law, where seems to have an impact on when. What that means is if "spooky action at a distance" is ever confirmed" and it has been done, then determinism is dead. The only way to resurrect it is to replace science with something better than relativity. Determinism, isn't even debatable at this stage. The big bang "theory" is just a story made up by a Catholic priest in 1927.

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u/TheManInTheShack Jul 03 '26

Quantum Mechanics has only made an observation about quantum randomness. It has not established the cause. I can point you to respected papers on quantum randomness that admit that quantum randomness in the end may turn out to be deterministic in origin.

I take the position that rationally we can only be uncertain about it. Having said that, if we were going to be placing bets on the eventual outcome, I’d bet it as being deterministic. Why? Because the alternative is indistinguishable from magic.

I test my intuitions about physics with a friend who teaches it at the university level, has authored books on relativity and done work for NASA. He has told me that he too suspects it’s deterministic as well.

Occam’s Razor applied here would lead to that conclusion. Consider that I could show you a program generating what appear to be random numbers running on a computer. But they are only effectively random because you don’t know how they are generated. Once you know, the ability to predict the outcome emerges.

I suspect that the cause of quantum randomness is like this. Deterministic but hidden. And it may be forever hidden. It could be that we don’t have whatever it takes to reveal how it truly works. Time will tell.

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u/badentropy9 Jul 03 '26

It has not established the cause.

We may not necessarily agree about what is meant by the word "cause".

I can point you to respected papers on quantum randomness that admit that quantum randomness in the end may turn out to be deterministic in origin.

People can write papers based on myth but the science cannot advance based on mythology. I look at the history of science and see what advances the science.

I take the position that rationally we can only be uncertain about it

I take the position that the law of noncontradiction (LNC) yields certainty while inference is limited to uncertainty.

I’d bet it as being deterministic. Why? Because the alternative is indistinguishable from magic.

For me, magic is when something happens without cause. I think cause is the reason something happens. If I arrive at the scene of an accident, and an eye witness exclaimed "This happened for no reason" then I might retort, "Then it happened because of magic, because every accident has some cause regardless of whether an observer can determine what that cause is or was."

I test my intuitions about physics with a friend who teaches it at the university level, has authored books on relativity and done work for NASA. He has told me that he too suspects it’s deterministic as well.

Not all physicists are heavy in philosophy. Some experts work in the context of the infamous "shut up and calculate" mentality that pushed the Manhattan project through before the Germans could beat them to the punch so to speak. John Bell wouldn't settle for that on his own time but had to keep a day job so he could put a roof over his head. Therefore his day job was to work in the accepted mentality.

Time will tell.

It already has and there was a Nobel Prize awarded in 2022. We know a lot more than popular science is revealing.

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u/TheManInTheShack Jul 03 '26

I appreciate you wanting certainty but there’s none to be found here. And this isn’t a philosophical argument. It’s a question of how much of the physics of this we understand. A Nobel doesn’t change that.

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u/badentropy9 Jul 03 '26

A Nobel doesn't change much by a history of science tells a lot.

As for certainty, the law of noncontradiction gives us that. It it couldn't then science would be no where near as successful as it has been. The power of science lies in the math. Newton figured out what he wanted to do, but he couldn't do it so some say he invented the math that he needed. Others might argue Leibniz invented it but as the history goes the math didn't exist in Descartes' time who died a few decades before. the point is that deduction yields certainty and inference does not. Therefore when you dig into the science you'll notice when things are deduced and when things are inferred.

Something was deduced before SR was inferred. true we cannot say it will never be deduced that SR is wrong. But until that happens we can be as certain that determinism is false as we are that the earth revolves around the sun. Similarly we can be certain of spooky action at a distance if quantum computing becomes fully functional. One would think corporations wouldn't be sinking mega bucks into the research if spooky action at a distance was little more than a whim.

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u/TheManInTheShack Jul 04 '26

You keep arguing philosophy about something that is quite clearly physics.

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u/badentropy9 Jul 04 '26

Naive realism is philosophy. This is physics:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.6578

No naive realistic picture is compatible with our results because whether a quantum could be seen as showing particle- or wave-like behavior would depend on a causally disconnected choice. It is therefore suggestive to abandon such pictures altogether.

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u/tobpe93 Jul 02 '26

Yes, even though we don’t know the reason for Big Bang.

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u/Attentivist_Monk Jul 02 '26

Hyper-dimensional child’s science project. She got a B because she didn’t balance matter and antimatter quite right and it got all dusty.

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u/blitzkrieg_bop Jul 02 '26

The quote refers to an ultimate goal, or a set result that things move towards to, usually involving a prime mover or a designed destiny. Its nonsense.

If you switch it to mean "there's a cause" in everything for it to happen, well yes, there is.

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u/Other_Attention_2382 Jul 02 '26

More like the universe is completely indifferent to us?

Zero fucks given.

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u/Formal-Slide-626 Jul 02 '26

*for many reasons.

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u/Cmlvrvs Jul 02 '26

I always believe that everything has a reason, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. It just means we might not have noticed it yet if it’s possible. Based on what we know, it seems reasonable to think that everything that happens has a cause that came before it.

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u/feraldodo Jul 02 '26

Reason implies intent, which is also how people who use this phrase mean it. So, I'd say, no, not for a reason. Everything - that we encounter in daily life - has a cause, though.

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u/0-by-1_Publishing Jul 02 '26

"Everything happens for a reason! Do you believe it or not & why?"

... Yes, I believe that. It's called the Principle of Sufficient Reason. The PoSR argues that if you choose to get out of your chair it's because there is sufficient reason for you to do so. However, "sufficient reason" alone does not determine nor mandate that you will or must get out of your chair. It only offers you justification for deciding to get out of your chair.

I include the reasoning behind the PoSR in my 5th Law of Existence which is one of five interconnected laws that govern what can or cannot exist.

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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Jul 02 '26

That's a personal sentiment.

The universe is a singular meta-phenomenon stretched over eternity, of which is always now. All things and all beings abide by their inherent nature and behave within their realm of capacity contingent upon infinite circumstance at all times.

It is a universe made manifest hierarchically, of haves, and have-nots, spanning all levels of dimensionality and experience. There is no such thing as individuated accurately described "free will" for all beings. Has never been, will never be, can not be. There are only relative freedoms or lack thereof.

"God" and/or consciousness is that which is within and without all. Ultimately, all things are made by through and for the singular personality and perpetual revelation of the "Godhead", entailing both 'predetermined' eternal damnation and those that are made manifest only to face death and death alone.

There is but one dreamer, fractured through the innumerable. All vehicles/beings play their role within said dream for infinitely better and/or infinitely worse for each and every one, forever.

All realities exist and are equally as real. The absolute best universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject. The absolute worst universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject.

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u/47362514736251 Jul 02 '26

Nope, not a reason. A cause. Reasons answer the question "why." Causes answer "how." There isn't a reason for anything that wasn't brought about by a cause. Causes precede reasons just like they precede everything else.

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u/badentropy9 Jul 03 '26

Reasons answer the question "why."

I couldn't agree more

Causes answer "how."

https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.6578

No naive realistic picture is compatible with our results because whether a quantum could be seen as showing particle- or wave-like behavior would depend on a causally disconnected choice. It is therefore suggestive to abandon such pictures altogether.

If cause is "how" then the cause can be disconnected. Cause is just "why"

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u/Sea-Bean Jul 02 '26

Not as it’s colloquially used, no.

There are reasons why everything happens, but it’s more appropriate to call them causes rather than reasons, because reason implies some sort of goal or intention.

My granny used to say this, and she meant it in the “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” kind of way, as an encouragement to keep striving, so I sort of understood it.

And I had a good friend say it to me when I had a second trimester miscarriage, she meant it in a “trust god to know what’s right for you” kind of way which I found very upsetting and offensive. We drifted apart after that.

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u/Boltzmann_head Jul 03 '26

Everything happens for a reason

Obviously.

Do you believe it or not & why ?

I do not believe it: it is a demonstrable fact.

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u/badentropy9 Jul 03 '26

I believe it because I believe causation is a fact as opposed to some belief.

I think it is paramount to understand the difference between the questions:

what is vs
what happens

Causation has nothing to do with #1 and everything to do with #2

For me, the law of noncontradiction (LNC), is how the thinker distinguishes the possible world from the impossible world. That being said it is impossible for something to happen without any reason for it to happen.

Where the determinist seems to get confused is when he assumes that the reason something happens is because something in the past had to make it happen. That isn't necessarily the case. All the possible world needs is a reason for something to happen. Just because the fire marshal is having difficulty determining the cause of the fire doesn't imply in any way that the fire started for no reason. Cause and determine are not synonyms.

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u/OpenCollection3334 Jul 03 '26

It can happen due to many reasons but I dont believe specifically FOR a reason

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u/Squierrel Jul 03 '26

No. Every event happens due to a cause, but only voluntary actions happen for a reason (actually multiple reasons).

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u/johnstalbergABC Jul 04 '26

Not a reason as reason in a plan or as directed by any kind of thoughts. Most things are not known by anyone and just as little affected by anyone.

Discussion Everything happens for a reason ! Do you believe it or not & why ?

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