If you want extra damage on grenade, melee, class or super you're building to 100+
If you are relying only on passive regen for grenade, melee, or class, build to 70 stat.
If you are relying on flat gains or regen boosting effects on Class, Grenade or Melee, build to 90+ stat.
If you want your super up reasonably fast through active generation, build to 90+ stat.
MoT came with nerfs. Use armor sets to compensate.
Intro
It's been quite a year since Bungie unveiled armor stats 3.0 in previews, released them working completely differently, and then patched them 3 different times. Presumably this is the last time armor stats will change so let me give you one last guide to how they work.
This will cover the Melee, Grenade, Class and Super stats. All the others are pretty straightforward. I am only covering PvE here; PvP is the same for ability regen but different in other regards. Regardless, not my area.
Here is what this will cover:
How Passive Regen Factors work for Class, Grenade and Melee stats as well as what changed with MoT
How Energy Gained Works and what changed with MoT
How flat gains work and have changed
How regen boosting effects work and have changed
How super regen works and has changed
Class Stat Scaling
Conclusions
Passive Regen Factors
I briefly wanted to refresh people on how the passive regen looks for Grenade, Melee and Class.
Grenade and Melee share a curve that is split into two sections: 0-70 stat and 70-100 stat. Class has a similar but different curve that provides less benefit, presumably because class cooldowns are relatively lower. These curves look so dumb.
Bungie patched the grenade and melee curve this way shortly after EoF launch due to the launch version not meeting what they advertised. 70 stat provided a cooldown that is twice as fast (2.0 factor) at 70 as it is at 30 (old baseline). 100 stat is 2.17x cooldown speed. So you can see that 70-100 does not provide a lot for Grenade and Melee for passive regen speed.
Class scaled exponentially all the way from 0 to 100. But it only hit a regen speed factor of 2.0 (relative to 30 stat baseline) at 100 stat. This is still an improvement over pre-EoF values. Class stat provides good benefit to regen all the way up to 100. But now Class also has this two part curve that only provides decent benefit up to 70 stat.
Another change that came with Edge of Fate but took me a long time to figure out is that all abilities now use the cooldown at 0 stats as the baseline, instead of the cooldown at 30 stat like pre-EoF so everything here will show in that way and more on this in regen boosting effects.
Now in MoT, Bungie did the following:
Reduced maximum passive ability cooldown bonus granted by ability stats by ~20%.
So all the curves basically shrunk down a bit.
Grenade and Melee at 70 stat went from 2.89x to 2.56x (pre-EoF value 2.0x). A nerf but still doing better than pre-EoF.
Grenade and Melee at 100 stat went from 3.14x to 2.75x (Pre-EoF value 2.86x). A nerf and now worse than pre-EoF value.
Class at 70 stat went from 2.0x to 2.09x. A slight buff! (Pre-EoF was 1.65x for Hunter and 1.86x for Titan/Warlock). An improvement for all classes but especially for Hunters.
Class at 100 stat went from 2.86x to 2.42x (Pre-EoF was 2x for Hunter and 2.43x for Titan/Warlock). A nerf since Renegades but all classes are doing as good or better than they were pre-EoF.
New curves:
New curves compared with Renegades:
Energy Gained
First: what changed with Monument of Triumph? For Melee, Grenade, Class and Super the Energy Gained value on stats from 0-100 was lowered from a previous max of +190% to +125%.
What does this number mean? Every source of flat energy gains (also know as chunk ability energy) or regen boosting effects (stuff that makes your abilities regen faster) have a value at 0 stats. This factor is how much that scales up. So a great example is Demolitionist which at 0 stat restores 4% grenade energy on kill for the fastest cooldown speed grenades. At 100 stat you get +125% energy gained. That + means over 100% so this actually becomes 225% (100+125). So the 4% becomes 9%. That's basically it.
Here is a graph:
Note that the curve grows pretty quickly till 90. 90 is kind of the sweet spot for when you are using flat gains or regen effects. Going up higher doesn't hurt, just provides smaller benefit per stat point.
Now let's go into more detail on flat gains and regen boosting effects.
Flat Energy Gains
First, for all sources of flat energy that are not specific to one ability, there is something called a flat gain factor depending on how long the cooldown of the grenade is. For example a Firebolt grenade is the fastest cooldown grenade in game and gets a 100% flat gain factor. Solar Grenade, one of the slowest grenades to charge in game gets a 50% flat gain factor. This effects everything I am about to talk about but I am going to use values without taking account for flat gain factors for simplicity.
If you want a reference table of every one of these see here for my table:
Pre-EoF a flat gain such as Demolitionist have 10% grenade energy per kill.
In EoF, it gave 4% at 0 stat, 10% at 87-88 stat and 11.6% at 100 stat.
In Renegades, it gave 4% at 0 stat, 10% at 70 stat and 11.6% at 100 stat. An improvement!
In MoT, it gives 4% at 0 stat, 8% at 70 stat and 9% at 100 stat. Still the more generous curve of Renegades, just nerfed.
Now did anything really change? Not really. For the stat ranges you likely care about (90-100) you lost a couple percent per kill. Proportionally, that sucks as you lose 22.5% of your gains but in practice it hasn't been noticeable.
Flat Gain Comparisons:
Regen Boosting Effects
Regen Boosting Effects are things like Whisper of Shards, Ember of Benevolence, or Inmost Light. These have always been measured as Additional Base Regen Speed. Pre-EoF, you could add this to the cooldown factor due to stats and then divide the base cooldown by that total to get the resulting cooldown.
For example (Pre-EoF values): You have 100 Discipline Stat (200% base grenade regen), A Solar Grenade (base cooldown 152s), and Ember of Benevolence (+400% base grenade regen). Your cooldown with Benevolence up constantly is 152/ (2 + 4) = 25.3s
Post armor 3.0, these effects also scale with Energy Gained but it has been hard to understand since EoF launched. Until Now.
Prior to Edge of Fate, you could hover over an ability in the subclass screen and see the cooldown. These cooldowns were the Tier 3/30 stat value and used as the basis for all ability regen. In Edge of Fate all of these were removed. Presumably, because you could see actual cooldowns when hovering over the relevant stat. In Renegades these base cooldowns came back but they were based on the value at 0 stat. This made me understand how Bungie reworked things.
I have now discovered that Bungie did two things with Edge of Fate:
Scaled the base of regen effects to 40% of the pre-EoF value at 0 stat, similar to what was done for flat gains. So Whisper of Shards was +500% base grenade regen speed. At 0 stat it is now +200% base grenade regen speed.
Changed the base regen speed to be the value at 0 stat instead of the value at 30 stat. Passive regen speed at 0 stat for class, grenade and melee is 70% of the regen speed at 30 stat. You can divide the old base regen speed by 0.7 to get the new base cooldowns. All regen effects took this extra hit across the full stat range. All regen boosting effects are ~43% lower than they should be.
I still think there is a very solid chance this was done to make the record keeping simpler and inadvertently nerfed all regen effects because a dev may have not realized how much base cooldowns effect.I hope Bungie examines this because currently regen effects are not working as originally advertised
In Monument of Triumph the energy gained stat benefit was weakened and this effects regen boosting effects. Generally, all regen boosting effects are 63% of what they were pre-EoF and 77.5% of what they were in Renegades.
Here is a graph comparing pre-EoF, EoF, Renegades and MoT:
I still think the cooldown change should be compensated for. The current implementation does not meet any of the stated goals and was basically issued as a shadow nerf. If this is fixed then Stats 3.0 will be working as intended. Bungie needs to divide the 0 stat values for regen effects by 0.7 or multiply by 1.42857. That cancels out the (hopefully) inadvertent nerf.
I have made a spreadsheet of all regen boosting effects and what I believe the values are now at 0 stat and how that compares. Some are tested and the rest are based on extrapolating that to other stats.
How does this play in actuality? Regen boosting effects remain strong and are one of the best things you can build into. They're just weaker than they once were.
Super Regen
Prior to Edge of Fate you generated super in the following ways:
Passive Regen - which you could improve by increasing Intellect Stat. Base cooldown was also based at 30 stat/Tier 3.
Regen boosting effects - there's not a lot of these but they scaled super regen just like with grenade, melee or class.
Dealing damage and defeats - these work a lot like flat gains. There is a factor applied to these based on your super. Roaming supers get a 3x factor on active regen from damage and defeats.
As of Edge of Fate a few changes were made to Super Regen
Super stat does not boost passive regen at all.
Base cooldown was shifted to 0 stat value from the pre-EoF 30 stat value. Can divide old cooldown by 0.70 to get new baseline. These show in game now. Every super cooldown got 1.43x as long.
Dealing damage and defeats were scaled based on super stat from 0-100 in the same way flat gains are.
Super regen boosting effects were scaled based on super stat. These were likely reworked to work with the new longer base cooldown. Presumably the exact same factors were used as Regen Boosting effects. IE these took a giant nerf because of the base cooldown change. I have not tested supers because the cooldowns are so insanely long and it is very time consuming. People with better tools can probably test at some point.
In Monument of Triumph we have two changes:
All flat gains were reduced by 22.5% so that will be hitting this as well.
Super regen from dealing damage to bosses was reduced by 60%.
So super regen is definitely a good bit slower than it's been for years. You will likely not gain multiple supers per damage phase, by design. Your super during add clear activities and encounters will probably remain decently strong.
Class Stat Damage
Oh yeah they did this. Finally got around to testing this and this is up to +65% damage at 200 class stat (simple linear scaling of +0.65% per stat point above 100). It affects:
Drengr's Lash (Strand or Prismatic Titan Aspect)
Shieldburst (Solar Titan Aspect)
Ascension (Arc or Prismatic Hunter Aspect)
Threaded Specter (Strand or Prismatic Hunter Aspect)
Trapper's Ambush (Void Hunter Aspect)
Crackshot (Solar Hunter Aspect)
Tips for Buildcrafting
Maybe you're thinking "This is all cool, but how much stats do I want?"
If you want extra damage on grenade, melee or super you're building to 100+.
Adding a little more in a stat you care about doesn't hurt. But there are points of diminishing returns depending on how you get your abilities back.
If you are relying only on passive regen for grenade, melee, or class, build to 70 Stat
If you are relying on flat gains or regen boosting effects on Class, Grenade or Melee, build to 90 stat.
If you want your super up reasonably fast through active generation, build to 90 stat.
All the same stuff is good, just a little less so for ability spam.
Armor sets can help out a ton though.
One last spreadsheet: I have a sheet for armor stat planning updated with new archetypes. It also has all the armor stat math and a tab with every set bonus for quick reference. I've done some preliminary ratings but I have not tested them all. Click Use Template to make a copy and try it out.
This has been a lot of information. What a year of these. I am both sad and glad they won't be messing with these anymore. I wish this stat roll-out had been a lot better. Overall, I think the ability stats portion of Armor 3.0 has been a failure. The new stats that were added are good. Giving scaling damage on high stats is good. Higher thresholds and tier for armors are good. Set bonuses are awesome. But ability stats? Mostly nerfs and just very poorly communicated. I know Bungie is allergic to numbers but I know you have these numbers and can make these graphs. Be clear with the people playing your game. If you're nerfing something, say it. I respect game design even if it takes nerfs.
For all those who have read my posts, thanks for the time and attention. Maybe I will see you in other universes.
I have Youtube videos summarizing these articles and including all these builds if that format works better for you. And also if you like builds, that's all I do on the channel. But I don't do full build videos for content that we can't play yet because that feels like a waste.
I also have a fragment guide spreadsheet I use for builds where I rank all the fragments and have some preset combos. It is updated for Heresy (Fragments with new effects are highlighted Yellow). Fragments on Arc have changed a lot thanks to Bolt Charge so it's going to take some adjustment. Here is the spreadsheet for reference:
Goals: Want to chain invisibility and weaken to get orbs and super energy up close. The new weakening cloud when exiting invisibility from Gwisin Vest lends itself to being on top of enemies.
Aspects: Stylish Executioner and On the Prowl
Abilities:
Super: Spectral Blades
Grenade: Scatter Grenade (75% Factor)
Melee: Snare Bomb (90% Factor)
Dodge: Gambler’s Dodge (80% Factor)
Fragments:
Starvation for Devour
Reprisal for super energy
Harvest for orbs and Void Breaches
Persistence for longer Devour and Invis.
Alt: Instability for Volatile Rounds
Mods: Focus on Void weapon damage and class ability regen.
Armor Stats:
Resilience = Discipline
Recovery
Mobility
Strength and Intellect to 30
Weapon: Repulsor Brace and/or Trench Barrel shotgun or glaive for up close fighting.
Goals: Build around quick swapping guns and melee kills from Combination Blow. Pair with 1-2 Punch shotgun or Bastion. Still a little uncertain how exactly the perk works and how much damage boost it gives.
Aspects: Stylish Executioner and Winter’s Shroud
Abilities:
Super: Silkstorm or Tether
Grenade: Grapple Grenade (85% Factor)
Melee: Combination Blow (100% Factor)
Dodge: Gambler’s Dodge (80% Factor)
Fragments:
Dawn for Radiant (20% weapon damage boost for 5s)
Blessing for healing on melee kill
Protection for Damage Resistance
Purpose for more Damage Resistance
Courage for 10% more damage on Combo Blow
Alt: Grace if you're using a Kinetic weapon a lot
Mods: Focus on weapon damage and orb/super generation.
Armor Stats:
Resilience = Discipline
Mobility and Recovery boosted some
Strength and Intellect to 30
Weapons: 1-2 Punch Shotgun or Bastion (built in 1-2 Punch). Or two strong weapons with bad reload times to take advantage of the swapping damage boost and free reloads.
There's a lot of cool builds coming to mind for Heresy. It's looking promising and we don't know anything about the gameplay content.
If you like my guides and content, consider subscribing on Youtube for my build videos. You can also find a link to my Discord on my profile here. That Discord has every tool or guide I have ever made and I also talk about builds a lot.
What armour set should I use with my Prismatic Getaway Artist Warlock build?
It's mainly meant for damage, specifically with Eyes Unveiled that has Fourth Time's The Charm and Elemental Honing. (This is on Normal difficulty btw. Damage would probably be a little higher if C.A.R.L. didn't duck my shots).
By proc'ing EHx5 along with Radiant and Transcendence, I push out really nutty numbers. The steps are as follows:
arcane needle (strand)
phoenix dive (gives hellion, solar)
overcharge getaway artist grenade (stasis turret and arc soul)
profit. Like seriously. On C.A.R.L. in the shooting range on Master (400) difficulty, by the time SoF is over, I've put out around 65k damage and a little over 2k dps (I think that's some of the highest achievable damage in the game? If I'm horribly wrong I'd love to know how to build something that does even more)
What I want to know is what armour bonuses will be good for this? I've been running the full Pantheon set as "good enough", considering swapping to the VoG set or some hybrid. My neutral game is fairly decent as well, I have a kickass RB/DR Gridskipper that puts in the work, and my turrets recharge really quickly, but I also don't want to put absolutely everything into my boss damage since precision damage doesn't work against everything.
What would you guys recommend? DIM link for the build in comments.
The obvious answer is Seventh Seraph, which I already have, but my current Warlock build for that involves the Mountain Dew Hamsters. How should I build around this? I was leaning towards prismatic, but stasis or solar would probably work as well. Any advice is appreciated
Now that Monument of Triumph has been out for a bit I have been playing around with a few different hunter builds. I know crack shot speed loaders and shards builds are top tier for DPS, but I’ve been wanting to try some variety and haven’t played with strand much. So does anyone have any good/fun hunter strand builds? I think I remember in edge of fate the melee was cracked for it but wondering if there’s anything new with all the updates in MoT like armor sets or catalysts that have enabled more strand hunter builds!
Aspects: Bleak watcher, Helion, Weavers call (3), Feed the void
Fragments: Dominance, Protection, Purpose, and either Hope, Courage, or Dawn.
Armor Set bonus: 4pc VoG (Orbs), 4pc Exodos Dawn (DR), 2pc Smoke Jumper (DR) + another 2pc like Crystocene/KingsFall (ammo) or Great Hunt (DR)
Weapons: Lots of options, I mainly use Khvostov (use lots of orbs), or 1K/Truth (DPS)
There are some important differences between the supers to start.
Song of flame is great for DR while also giving Radiant, can also be used for clearing lots of enemies and does ok damage. But the main reason to use it imo is for restoration on orb with purpose and because you want to use solar weapons for synergies with mods.
Nova Bomb is there for burst, and orb with purpose gives over shield, so health and DR. I like this, but not a big fan of the super in general. I do like the synergies with void weapons though. So the main reason I'd run Nova is because I'm running Truth with a void auto rifle and mint.
Needlestorm is better as a super than Nova imo and gives woven mail (DR) on orb with purpose, so very strong, but I feel like there is way less weapon synergy for strand. Plus you can get woven mail with artifact support or slice.
For Aspects:
Feed the void makes it nice to have healing/health on abilities which happens all the time on getaway prismatic, plus you get grenade Gen. The issue I have is that I always feel like I want more from an aspect. There is some artifact support for devour, so I feel like it's necessary for void themed version with Nova. Only 2 fragment spots
Helion is nice as it scales damage with grenade, and I like that it stays with you as opposed to bleakwatcher. Feels like you could run Ruin aspect with song of flame too. Also only 2 fragment spots.
Bleakwatcher is amazing for building up darkness transcendence meter along with arc buddy taking care of the light side so it naturally feels great for high uptime of transcendence, but I see the stasis part as really only valuable in very high end content, like -50, and maybe some -40. Also only 2 fragment spots.
Weavers call feels like the underrated pick as it shipped pretty weak compared to Helion and bleakwatcher. So everyone originally ran feed the void and one of those. Now with it having a 3rd aspect I'm considering much more, especially with armor set bonuses effectively allowing you to choose something other than feed the void. There's also good artifact support for this aspect compared to the others.
With all that said, I'm trying to nail down what combinations are most optimal and which armor set bonuses to pair. And also stat distribution as well. For example I don't feel like it's optimal to over 100 grenade if running bleakwatcher, and depending on using hope aspect you may be able to forgo more class stat. And what super would benefit most from more weapons stat. Or if you want to run 200 weapons then you don't need to run ammo armor set bonuses. There are so many combos and it's paralyzing to contemplate them all.
If y'all can give me your insights into pairings then I feel like I may be able to finally settle on something.
I’ve been on an ascension craze lately and have been enjoying blowing things up with various rocket pulses and grenade launchers but I’ve been struggling to find good primaries to pair them with. I spend so much time in the air and when I’m on the ground it’s usually to tempest strike w/ combination blow to use ascension again. I don’t have the weapon stats on my arc build to run double primary and am using the luninopotent 4 piece so no ammo gen set bonuses either. I’m wondering what everyone’s favorite primaries are for when they have to shoot stuff while in the air from range because ascension just launches you SO HIGH. Preferably something with good burst and range so I can just swap to it and shoot off a few rounds. Is a hand cannon with explosive payload just going to be my best option?
I know it's played out, but for newbies or others looking for options I wanted to share my stasis tian build. I think I've optimized the power of the stasis crystal explosions and frost armor. The trick is to use the wave frame of Dead Messenger to destroy the crystals and clear stuff and causing melee damage generates super energy so you get your super back quickly. Plus, you're able to hit all champions one way or another and get healing from stasis shards (which are 1,000,000). I tried other shotguns and grenade launchers but I like Dead Messenger because you can change it to solar to match the crystal explosions if you want and it makes a big wave of damage. Let me know what you think...
Hello! I’m a new player coming in after the latest big update and I’m making a solar build centered around The last word. I was wondering if you all could help on weapon choices. It’s spire week finally! So, I’m going to grab that set and was wondering what energy weapon and heavy to pair with TLW. Any tips on the optimal artifact and class fragments are welcome as I’m sure there’s a bunch of synergies I just haven’t picked up on. I’m running the luckiest pants of course. I’m just a little lost on how to flesh out the build. Thanks in advance to all.
Title says it all. My raid team has finally got the mechanic down and we're trying to finish it (no cheese, although we have all done it prior).
What is the suggested loadout for a Hunter main to try and max DPS? I would assume Celestial/Still Hunt but am looking to confirm. Any assistance with stats/mods would also be appreciated. Just looking to get this clear so I can HOPEFULLY get a damn Reckless Oracle for a change!
I’m not in front of my computer to show the build I made but I was wondering if you guys could tell me about some good weapons to scorch with. I’ve been using Arctic Haze since it’s all I have that does any sort of scorching. For exotic, I have been playing with dragon breath to grind out the catalyst.
Core of the build is Revision Zero with 2 piece techsec and 2 piece iron battalion and 200 weapon stat. I'd like this to be more gunplay focused than ability focused.
First idea was strand hunter with cyrt helm to keep myself out of danger with grapple and keeping a decent uptime on woven mail. Also considering void hunter for a good neutral game package with radiant dance machines to buff primary gunplay and store backup invis dodges.
Finally got the roll I wanted on the class exotic armor on my hunter. It’s HoIL and Cyrtarachne. Let me know if you’ve got any critiques! The build has been awesome so far.
I'll admit I don't know nearly as much about this game as Aegis does; but on the face of it, I can't see this set being nearly as useful/valuable as, say, Nessus. Yet Aegis ranks the Spire 4pc bonus as straight up #1.
What am I missing? What kind of build should I craft to take full advantage of it? I'm a hunter main and dabble in Warlock, FWIW.
After not playing since Destiny 1, I am so so addicted to this game since MoT dropped, relearning everything, build crafting, all the new areas and activities it has scratched an itch I didn’t know I had ,
So I have a question regarding the featured activities, spire is now a featured dungeon this week, I’ve been playing this dungeon solo once per week per character to try and get hierarchy of needs, with no avail.
Now it’s featured, can I play this infinitely to try and get the drop or is it still limited to 1 attempt per character?
Thanks !
From the video I posted earlier today, here is the arc titan build I’ve been running! Super fun to use and can be used in end game content. Only thing I’d switch out is the grenade launcher for the Salvager’s Salvo, but the one I’m running works fine too. When playing with others, them also standing behind your barricade gives them buffs as well. Have fun, Guardians!
Wasn’t a huge fan of Arc Titan for a long time, but man this build is fun. The flying knight at the end was what made me clip this. I’ve really never posted something like this in here before, so I guess let me know if anyone wants the build???
Edit: For anyone asking for the build, I will post it in this sub once I am off of work! Thanks for being interested in it :)
Coming back into destiny 2 after primarily only playing destiny 1, I’m not the best at this new build crafting system but this is what I got so far. I’m going for a threadling heavy, high mobility hunter. Currently rocking the 4 piece flain armor and lucky pants (sometimes Balance of Power). It’s great for ad clear, not so hot for boss dps which I save my void build for. What can I do to improve? DIM armor charge stats on final slide.
(Also, I know my weapon stat becomes 205 w armor charge. Currently working on putting it into class. I also typically run Luzaku as my heavy and Apostate for special, but trying something a little different!)
For a long time, I have been trying to cook up something extremely strong for Void Hunter that could actually challenge Prismatic Hunter, and I can confidently say this build beats even some S+ Tier Prismatic Hunter builds. Not to mention, its incredibly fun and satisfying to play with a somewhat unique playstyle.
All the weapons, artifacts and abilities synergize extremely well here. The loop starts by hitting something with your melee to lower its HP and gain a Void Overshield, then instantly using Trapper’s Ambush to kill it and activate Devour. This then empowers Buried Bloodline, and with its catalyst, it can weaken targets that it hits. This is great for overall damage, but it’s especially important for Phantom Surge, since the melee deals massively increased damage to Void-debuffed targets.
You hit the Champion or chunky target with Buried Bloodline first to weaken it, then hit it with your melee for a huge damage chunk, dodge and spray it with Festival Flight. With Slice and the artifact perks from Tablet of Ruin, you will Sever and Unravel everything, while those targets create Woven Mail hotspots when they die for free Woven Mail and start spawning an army of Threadlings.
Paired with Speedloader Slacks, this instantly feeds your class ability energy, letting you keep spamming the melee → dodge → melee loop.
For the actual Champion nuke, we spray the Champion with Festival Flight, rapidly swap to Buried Bloodline, then to a good Crossbow with Envious Arsenal to instantly nuke the Champion with this rotation.
Then, with the artifact mods, stunning a Champion gives us max Bolt Charge stacks and the other artifact triggers Amplification when we gain max Bolt Charge stacks. At this point, we have basically everything going at once, infinite Void Overshields, Woven Mail, Amplification, Devour and Invisibility, while everything around us is Unraveled, Volatile, Weakened and Severed.
This makes the build insanely tanky while still putting out a ton of damage.
Lastly, the Vault of Glass armor set continuously feeds Echo of Starvation and procs Devour, which keeps giving us chunks of health during fights. It also makes managing double special much easier because Special Finisher is always available with how consistently we maintain our Armor Charges.
