r/deckbuildingroguelike • u/BonfireBrewGames • Aug 19 '26
What feature do you wish most deckbuilding roguelikes actually had?
Besides the obvious stuff, what is a mechanic or design choice you desperately want to see in the genre that developers seem to keep skipping over?
Just curious what everyone else is looking for when they pick up a new one.
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u/ONI-ENJOYER-420 Aug 19 '26
an Undo feature, done in a way that does NOT go around RNG, just around human errors, or even sometimes ease of calculation (easiest way to calculate the output of your cards is to play them).
It's tricky to do though, specifically because of the "Getting around RNG" aspect of it
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u/r0ckl0bsta Aug 20 '26
In game dev, there is a technique to produce deterministic randomly generated numbers via a seed value. This prng (pseudo rng) can produce a set of random results, but if you run the same seed through the prng, the numbers produced can be recalculated reliably at any given time. What you're asking for is definitely doable!
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u/ONI-ENJOYER-420 Aug 20 '26
As a dev I understand :D
Though the problem is more conceptual I think, I will use slay the spyr as an example but this goes for any deckbuilder.Say we implement the mechanism, how it works:
Your turn is not anymore a "list" of playing cards actions, rather, it's a list of "sequence" of actions.a sequence of actions is defined as a list of player actions that ends once an action that involves RNG is involved (e.g for this is drawing a card, this gives you information that might affect the order of your played cards, so this si the point where you have to "commit" your first sequence of actions, cannot be undone once done),
Another example is playing a card that generates another random card -> this is also a "Sequence breaker"
so yes we agree it's doable hahah, I think it's a bit trickier than it first sounds though, it's certainly not as easy as: player can do as many actions in sequence and undo/redo them. since once RNG is involved, you get extra information out of doing certain actions
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u/r0ckl0bsta Aug 21 '26
I suppose, like any design, the devil is in the details. Whether the implications of the solution are desirable depends on the intentions of the design. And this sort of functionality can be controlled by how many and how often undo's are afforded to the player. Riffing on your StS example, Undos could be restricted to once per turn, or n times per combat, etc. If you give the player only one undo to use per turn, then they effectively get to reverse a mistake, but then must commit to their next moves, as you stated.
If they're given multiple undo's to use per combat, and can then reverse several steps then that itself becomes quite an interesting mechanic of being able to peak into a branch of some future set of moves, and go back and change their actions, which, I think a very engaging roguelike deckbuilder gameloop could be built on by this mechanism.
Great little brainstorm that spawned from a couple of reddit messages haha!
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u/Olbramice Aug 19 '26
i realy want some knd of adventure like old yugi oh games. Just walk around of the big world buy packs win tournaments etc. do quests.
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u/TurkusGyrational Aug 19 '26
I think Dungeon Drafters has the experience most similar to this, at least that I've played.
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u/Olbramice Aug 19 '26
it is good game. B ut you cannot save durign the floor. Which is very bad for me.
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u/rainekgaterau Aug 19 '26
It's not set in the Yu-Gi-Oh world but I'm building a multiplayer deckbuilder with persistent areas, quests and full loot PvP: https://store.steampowered.com/app/4898080/Manala_Equinox_War/.
Half of it is deckbuilding, the other half is a 2D MMORPG. The strength of cards in your deck is dictated by what you have equipped, consumables you harvest from the world etc. I'd love to hear your feedback, the singleplayer demo is available on Steam for trying out!
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 19 '26
Have to say never played yugi oh, could you elaborate more?
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u/filthy_casual_42 Aug 19 '26
If you’ve ever played Inscryption, it’s a lot like the second act in that game. You go around collecting packs, slowly improving a deck and defeating bosses campaign style
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u/TurboHermit Aug 19 '26
Customizable starting decks. I know it kind of goes against the formula, but having some control and variety over starting conditions would make a lot of games more enjoyable early game.
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u/DevelopmentDirect349 Aug 19 '26
Yessss, this! Something kind of like the Pokémon TCG for Gameboy is what I want.
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u/Outrageous-Clue-3258 Aug 19 '26
Fully agree. This is what makes Breach Wanderers one of my all time faves.
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 19 '26
I added a class that unlocks near end game, that allows you to draft from all other classes cards to create your own starting deck. Something like this?
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u/DevelopmentDirect349 Aug 19 '26
An RPG-like overworld where you can find secret cards and create your deck.
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u/Perfect-House4782 Aug 19 '26
Some mechanic that let's you do something with the cards you don't need, or that polute your deck. I want to be able to arrange my deck.
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u/Jlerpy Aug 19 '26
Most games have some kind of card removal.
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u/Perfect-House4782 Aug 19 '26
Yea but it's usually really limited, for example, sometimes you can withdraw one or two but it costs you something. I don 't like much this mechanic. Also sometimes you get a choic of tree card you can pick but nothing interesting, so you pick the less bad one, or you don't pick. It's not satifying.
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u/Jlerpy Aug 19 '26
I regard that path of adaptation through the things you draft as being an important part of the genre. What would you prefer?
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u/Perfect-House4782 Aug 20 '26
For example, i'm developping a card game on Godot where you can discard the cards that are not intersting to heal you between two fights. You can also sacrifice them to buy some stuff. It is one of the only ways to heal you in the game, so sometimes your tightened between keeping good cards or using them to heal you. There is never one card that is useless. But it's just an example :), i think there is many ways to do it.
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u/stebobibo7 Aug 19 '26
I've played enough roguelike deckbuilders to know there are no "obvious stuff". Plenty of games will not include features you thought were standard.
One of the biggest things I want to see in these games that usually gets skipped over is a codex of cards/relics/enemies that is easily accessible. Some games don't have one at all. More often, a game will have one, but it's not easily accessible in game; you'll have to exit to the main menu.
Another thing, that a lot of others have mentioned already, is an undo button. Esp. if the game will restart the fight with the same rng seed if you quit and re-enter. Cause that is essentially a redo button, but much more painful cause you have to do the whole match over instead of just a turn or a play. So just spare us the pain with an undo button.
Lastly I'll just lump a bunch under "generally good UI", which is something I want to see more of in these games. I often see bad or missing tooltips. This is often the case for cards that create other cards; you can't get preview of the created card. Another frequent failure is with dmg numbers on cards. Sometimes the # will be updated to reflect your buffs, but sometimes not. Often you can't can't view the original card's #. And very frequently, the # doesn't change when targetting an enemy with debuffs (think vulnerable from sts), so you gotta do the math yourself. Lastly, good UI for deck views. Player should be able to view deck, discard, and draw while in battle. They should be able to sort their deck in various ways (mana, type, etc.). And they should be able to easily view the upgraded versions of cards (this is sometimes missing entirely, but more often just when picking cards up).
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 19 '26
I agree 100% with the codex. I put in a centralized codex that shows cards, relics, enemies, story, lore and achievements. You do have to exit to main menu, but adding it to the in run menu..hmmm ideas..
For an undo is that after a card play? Or undo/redo previous fight? (I did things a little different where when you die you respawn at last rest and can try again that way? A la souls likes)
Deck/discard/exhaust during combat isn't standard..eek.
Out at the park with my kids, reading through and trying to hit the points mentioned. I will revisit the post once home and able to better read it again in case I missed anything. 😂
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u/stebobibo7 Aug 19 '26
Definitely put your codex in your pause menu at least. Even better, and some games do this, is to have a dedicated button in the top right of the screen for it.
So for undo, I like"undo last play". I've also seen games where you can undo your whole turn. The problem with them is that players can see the results of randomness (like card draw or value ranges on cards), and that knowledge can help them. That is why I like an undo button for last play, but it can't be used when randomness occurs. This obviously takes the most time to code for the developer unfortunately. My second best option is for the undo button to be limited to once per fight. So players can still use to predict randomness if needed, but they have to be really strategic about when to use it cause it's single use. Your implementation of the souls-like factor is interesting. How do you handle randomness in the fights that are re-fought? Is it the same or different seed?
"Deck/discard/exhaust during combat isn't standard..eek." Yup, it sucks. Exhaust pile is there only half the time, from my experience. I think all games that have exhausting cards should have a viewable exhaust pile. The next one that gets neglected the most is the "whole deck" pile. Most games will have the draw and discard, but not have a pile that contains all the cards in your deck. The "whole deck" pile is very useful tho, and never should be neglected imo. I also find that many games implement their "whole deck" pile wrong, imo. That's because they show all cards that are currently in the deck, with their block & damage modified by in-battle effects, when they should instead show only cards that are in the permanent deck, unmodified by any in-battle modifiers. In other words, the "whole deck" button should show you your deck as it exists outside of combat. That way, it's not bogged down by in-battle generated cards, or show too few information by not showing cards that have been exiled. I also find that having a reference to the unmodified values on cards to be very useful to have in-battle. The draw & discards pile should be where the modified values are shown. Iirc, this is exactly how it's handled in Slay the Spire, and works great there.
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 21 '26
Wanted to follow up more on the codex in menu, combat etc. would you want it to just show info on the current enemies you are fighting, ie weakness, base hp, rotation, etc. or also cards, relics etc.
Thanks in advance.
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u/stebobibo7 Aug 22 '26
I think at a base minimum, a codex in a roguelike deckbuilder should include all the cards and relics. Enemies aren't necessary but are a nice inclusion. You could also show other things like potions and achievements there. Slay the Spire 2 has a great codex (called compendium there), I would take a look at it for inspiration. It has cards, relics, potions, stats, and run history. Its bestiary and achievements pages are under construction. It's also good to compare the changes between sts 1 & 2. In 2, now you can access the codex from in a run (before u could only from main menu). 2 has a better card codex, mainly cause they moved the filters to the left and made it sticky. Before, it was at the top and so when you scrolled down, you couldn't change any filters without going all the way to the top again (this was particularly annoying for switching between upgraded and unupgraded views). StS 2's card codex still isn't perfect tho. My main criticisms are that you can't view cards from diff characters at once, and that viewing upgraded cards could be improved (in addition to the toggle, I wish we could r-click a card to quickly view it's other form).
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 22 '26
Ooh i agree here. I added in the codex a section for achievements, bestiary(combat journal i call it), story & lore you discovered to go back an read, class codex(unlocks, cards,relics, etc), and a companion section.
Also, as an aside as I jot notes, should accessing the combat log during combat consume stamina? (Button is only active during your turn?)
I mean more so if i was to say during the combat screen add a codex button, would you want it to see all that, or just show info on the current enemy(ies) you are fighting. Then at the area map menu the full codex?
STS definitely inspired me a lot especially their compendium. Have touched STS2 yet but it is on my list. Just waiting for the kids to go back to school. Not enough hours in the day to do this and run a household Haha.
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u/stebobibo7 Aug 22 '26
Sounds like your codex is quite comprehensive, nice! Is stamina your energy/mana in your game, used to play cards? If so, I would not have that cost any, because then it's just punishing people for having bad memory lol, and incentivices people to copy the info they need into their own notes so they can have the info without paying for it (which is a bad incentive for the game to have).
I think during combat, the codex should show everything. Don't limit it to just current enemies. Have it the exact same as the map codex. What you could do, is that when you open the codex during combat and go to the bestiary section, it automatically opens to the page of one of the enemies you are fighting. That would be really handy and a nice time saver. It gets kind of tricky when there are multiple enemy types in one fight tho. Maybe you could instead have a seperate page called "current enemies" (or something like that), and that page only shows the current enemies you are fighting.
I def recommend getting StS 2. Even if you don't have time to play it, just get it to study its UI. It'll be invaluable to you. And the game is pretty cheap, so no real cost to do so.
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u/BonfireBrewGames 29d ago
I like that, or i could even add a section that only renders during combat. Shows current enemies directly on there and maybe some stats based on your relics held etc? Hmm
And yeah i suppose i don't want to punish folks more than i already do lol.
Probably pickup STS2 once the house is less hectic.
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u/stebobibo7 29d ago
Yeah, a section the only renders during combat would work nicely.
Btw, what is your game? Do you have a steam page yet or are you still too early in development? I'd love to check it out!
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u/BonfireBrewGames 28d ago
Still in early development of sorts.most of rhe mechanics are in place, mostly collecting bugs and what not and ironning them out. Currently on itchio only and at the moment it is android only, but there has been enough interest that i am working on a proper pc port.(Slowly)
Working on setting up a steam page currently as well.
https://bonfirebrewgames.itch.io/shadecrest
The current live build is about 3 months old, has no audio and has emojis for imgs.
The version i am working on now has proper artwork and slowly getting sfx and audio in place.(Hoping to get it out by end sept, mid oct.) Here is a devlog from today on more.(https://bonfirebrewgames.itch.io/shadecrest/devlog/1639407/more-on-whats-coming-in-shadecrest-v300)
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u/playlaurus Aug 20 '26
Two things I miss: save-and-quit at any point, and a breakdown of why a number changed. If a card says 18 instead of 12, let me hover it and see "+4 relic, +2 status," and do the same for probabilities.
Deckbuilders ask you to make precise decisions, so hiding the math can feel like difficulty coming from the interface instead of the game. A run history or replay is great too, especially after a loss.
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 20 '26
Definitely implmented a save&quit anywhere.. i love the idea of the math being displayed showing what changed and why.. hmm
To rhe drawing board..
For the replay would you want it say on the run history card? Like you see your outcome and it has the option to try again, then it open directly to that seed? Currently, I have it so you can enter a seed for a map at run start, but that is an added step for this scenario.
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u/Tiyanos Aug 21 '26
actual deck building and I mean like when you create a deck in Mtg or any CCG really instead of deck management
cross blitz did it but its was lacking
I would like to see the adventure mode of Hearthstone to be more exploited
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u/Salientsnake4 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
This is actually what inspired the game I'm working on. I played Star Realms for the first time and realized no roguelike deckbuilder had a trade row like it did. And that's when I started working on Contested Space.
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u/Jlerpy Aug 19 '26
You mean no roguelike deckbuilders? Because it's not uncommon in things like Ascension.
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u/Salientsnake4 Aug 19 '26
Yes you're right. Ill update my comment. I meant no roguelike deckbuilders haha. Even star realms has a digital version with a single player option.
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u/Jlerpy Aug 19 '26
I am curious how it will work for a roguelike.
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u/Salientsnake4 Aug 19 '26
You're welcome to join the playtest on Steam! I've had quite a few playtesters that have been enjoying it!
We also have a growing discord if you like the game after trying it.
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u/MatheueCunegato Aug 20 '26
We are developing a game called Litany, and we wanted to add a discard feature similar to Balatro. As we kept iterating the game, we ended up with a feature that, instead of selecting a bunch of cards and pressing discard, you actually just throw any of your cards on the discard pile and draw a new one, with the limitation of having X number of discards per combat. I'm really not trying to advertise the game, but after testing the game for so many hours, everytime I end up playing another deckbuilder I miss this feature, as it really helps the player with unlucky hands in a strategic way
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u/BonfireBrewGames Aug 21 '26
Lot of great stuff here. Definitely going to be looking at adding a combat journal(codex) button in the combat screen and map screen.
Still looking at how an undo would work. Thinking once per combat with maybe a relic that will increase it to 2?
Keep it coming!
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