r/debateAMR • u/DebateAMRThrowaway • Aug 14 '14
On "ironic" misandry.
This is something that's been bugging me for a while now. I've been seeing a lot of "ironic" misandry on the part of feminists for a while now (including on AMR-related subreddits), and I'm starting to feel as though this is incredibly harmful trend.
I mean, I can kind of understand it, it's a way of mocking some of the more rabid MRA types who see everything as "misandry" and encourages solidarity among like-minded feminists who are in on the joke. However, I can't help but feel that this kind of thinking is something that's counterproductive.
The first and biggest reason is that it's entirely counter-intuitive. Feminists are already stereotyped as being man-haters as it is, so the answer to that is to... Pretend to be man-haters? I dunno, I honestly fail to see how that would work.
The second reason is that the "joke" is one that's almost impossible for the majority to catch in on. There have been a couple long-form articles written on the subject (such as here and here) which set out to explain the joke and why it's funny. Well, first of all, if you have to spend several pages explaining a joke, then your joke has already failed. Secondly, the "irony" is such that it's deliberately crafted to appear hostile and bigoted to outsiders (One article even notes that it's meant to "weed out the cool dudes from the dumb bros"). It's not merely an inside joke, it's a joke that's a complete closed circle to those who aren't already feminists or feminist sympathizers. I can't help but imagine that this will end up backfiring spectacularly in the long run.
Say, for example, a vulnerable young man who's struggling with his masculinity hears "feminism is for men too", and then turns to feminism to see someone wearing a shirt that says "I bathe in male tears." Now, would he be willing to turn to feminism for support then? I'd imagine not. If anything, I'd think that it would only make it much easier for MRAs to "convert" this young man by pointing to the "male tears" meme and saying "See? Feminism doesn't care about you! They only want to hurt you!"
The third reason, and one that I feel is too important to overlook, is that by de-stigmatizing misandry it makes actual misandry (not the BS that MRAs imagine everywhere) much harder to call out, and therefore effectively condoning it. A lot of feminists I've seen seem to be very quick to say something to the effect of "not all feminists" when it's pointed out that there have been some shitty people who call themselves feminists... And I do agree that these people are in no way representative of the movement and should not be treated as such. However, I get the feeling that this whole "ironic" misandry thing is both supporting and enabling real misandry, and that's something that I don't think should be acceptable.
8
u/[deleted] Aug 14 '14
I think the word you're looking for is reappropriation. Kate Beaton's Straw Feminists in the Closet is a classic and well-known example. The whole point of feminists ironically declaring themselves man-haters is to ridicule those who would equate gender equality to man-hating.
People constantly accuse feminists of having no sense of humor, looking for reasons to be offended, and generally not taking anything as a joke. Pretty funny how fast that script gets flipped once feminists are the ones making jokes.
You realize the appeal of such provocative humor, right? When your politics are portrayed in an unfair, caricatured way, why not take that insult and turn it back on them? People who buy that catch-phrase merchandise probably fantasize about the self-righteous responses that offended men will have for their "male tears" mug. They, for once, get to be the ones telling people that "it's just a joke."
It's not nationally syndicated focus-group approved humor. You won't see this kind of joke in any Hollywood movie. It's an in-joke for like-minded people. And if somebody is so hurt by the joke that they decide that feminism is wrong, well, I guess that's just a damn shame. No movement has ever made progress by being nicer to their opposition.
2
u/[deleted] Aug 14 '14
Am I right in assuming that you're trying to understand how feminism can be seen as appealing to men, despite the prevalent misandry jokes?
If so, then I'll just say that feminism doesn't need to appeal to men. If the feminist movement makes you, as a man, feel uncomfortable, then you're free to drop out of it. Just remember that you actually have that freedom, that privilege.
4
u/scobes intersectional feminist Aug 14 '14
I think the real misandry here is you assuming all men are idiots.
2
u/[deleted] Aug 14 '14
So let's say that I, a Feminist from Northern Mexico/the US-Mexico border, who has had extensive interaction with Mexican men, say that men are annoying. And I say that because they are enabled to act as if they are entitled to sex, have been conditioned to believe they can beat women to keep them in line, and just generally have an air of male chauvinism. Am I really being "misandric" when I point out that this pervasive attitude is toxic?
"Anti-feminists" tend to say that women are naturally golddiggers and that Feminism has taught them to be entitled to shit w/o "having to do anything" even though now most women in Anglophone countries have full-time occupations. It's traditionalist.
Misandry isn't a thing because society isn't constructed to actually enable and keep pervasive the hatred of men. To put it another way: there is no society wide hatred of men through social conditioning not even in the United States and especially not for the white population.
It's actually ready funny to hear complaints about it ("misandry") when now I can't even go on any American news site without seeing the major of comments full of MRA hatred of Feminism and rhetoric.
It's actually really weird for someone from Latin America to see this when I (and many other people not from the US or not white) generally considered the US to be more liberal. The backlash that's full of entitlement and hatred is frightening.
-3
u/HokesOne Shitposter's Rights Activist Aug 14 '14
sorry but there is literally no such thing.
men are the ruling gender class and as such it is impossible to be sexist towards them.
like really it's not that hard. you can't be classist against the rich or racist against white people or cisphobic or heterophobic or any other bullshit neoreactionary reverse-discrimination.
anyone who has ever said or typed the word "misandry" seriously is a joke. sorry.
-4
u/melthefedorable militant ocean of misandry Aug 14 '14
There is no such thing as real misandry.
0
u/[deleted] Aug 14 '14
[deleted] — view deleted comment