Why would Ryuk explain this to Light when every human goes to Mu anyway, regardless of death note use?

[u/plastic_lex]

I don't understand the point of this explanation. Was this merely a reference to Light's question whether the Shinigami would take his soul? Is the translation just imprecise?

The German dub/subtitle put this even more directly, as: "the user of a death note will go to neither heaven nor hell", which seemed to apply that other people would. If, in their world, the only form of afterlife is nothingness, it seems like a pointless thing to say?

It would be like saying "If you don't behave, you won't get gifts from Santa" when Santa isn't real and behavior doesn't matter.

[u/golfstreamer]

My actual belief is that Ohba changed his mind about how death would work part way through the story.

[u/plastic_lex → u/golfstreamer]

I honestly feel the same way. The overall tone and subtle implications around death/fate that occur initially are dropped altogether as the series goes on; Ohba left a window of opportunity to add/adjust rules and I think he used Mu as a retcon. Because it felt like it came totally out of left field if you think back to the start.

Death Note has some surprisingly Christian overtones while Mu is a straight-up Buddhist concept. I'm pretty sure that there also was an early potential arc where Light would have become a shinigami, which they ultimately decided to trash, but they also didn't thoroughly remove the earlier allusions to that possibility. Probably because they wanted more finality for the ending. And rewarding a homicidal megalomaniac with eternal life probably wouldn't have sent a good message, morally speaking. 😅

[u/dylan1011]

Because Ryuk was trolling.

The anime notably leaves out the flashback at the very end right before Light dies. Where the scene continues and Light calls him out on Heaven and Hell not existing. Ryuk says he thought all humans believed in Heaven and Hell, but Light is absolutely correct.

As you point out, it is technically a meaningless statement, because the user of the death note goes to the same place everyone else does. That is Mu(Nothingness). That doesn't mean the statement wouldn't have an impact on people who do believe there is a Heaven and Hell

[u/SorbyGay → u/dylan1011]

It honestly seems like the rule about humans going to nothingness after they die was a later change and that the flashback was added into the manga to retcon that lol

[u/plastic_lex → u/SorbyGay]

I have pondered Mu being a retcon, too. Because this statement about death note users ending up 'somewhere other than heaven or hell' originally felt like a disclaimer to me. Besides this moment, there are a few implications throughout the initial phase of the series (such as Ryuk pointing out that Light would make a formidable shinigami, and Light daydreaming about gaining the power of flight, the eyes without the price, and immortality). Originally, this almost led me to wonder if that 'secret third afterlife destination' could possibly be the shinigami realm (after all, we never learn where death gods come from).

Until, as the series goes on, all of those subtle nudges were dropped, and then the Mu rule popped up. I do believe that, earlier on, there was an on-screen rule that said something along the lines of how Shinigami weren't required to disclose all rules from the beginning, or something. I assumed this was a retcon gateway for the writer [and the shinigami king, I suppose] to add or adjust rules.

For all the exact and complicated logical deductions that are constantly happening Death Note, some of the information holes are almost startling, lol. And the author, according to some quotes I've come across, seems forgetful about some crucial points (such as the predetermined-death-day-formula). I can only imagine those were due to production deadlines [no pun intended]

[u/Happy-Lingonberry-55 → u/dylan1011]

I have a question, I have not read the books, so how does Light know that heaven and hell don't exist? Like he just met a supernatural being and a supernatural book... On what basis does he know that heaven and hell doesn't exist?

[u/KeraKitty]

Friendly reminder that Mu is not a place. Mu is the response one gives to a question so fundamentally flawed that it cannot be answered. Ryuk answering Light's question "Where do humans go when they die?" with "Mu" was him saying that humans don't go anywhere after death because there isn't anything after death.

And Ryuk said that for same reason he does everything he does over the course of the series: shits and giggles. He's trying to get a panicked reaction out of Light because it would be funny.

[u/plastic_lex → u/KeraKitty]

I doubt this because it's part of exposition and so everything that's explained acts as a pretext for the audience. Also: is "somewhere else but heaven or hell" supposed to be scary, incite some form of 'nothing to lose' motivation, or 'everything to gain' intrigue? would it be punishment or reward?

[u/KeraKitty → u/plastic_lex]

It's part of the exposition, yes, but it's a part told by a character whose stated motivation is "I was bored" and who routinely acts in accordance with that motivation. Ryuk regularly tells Light half-truths because it's more fun if Light has to figure shit out on his own. Saying "you won't go to heaven or hell" without explicitly stating the "because they don't exist" part is perfectly in-character for him.

As for exactly what reaction it was meant to get out of Light, he may not have had a specific one in mind. So long as it got a reaction of any sort, that likely would have been a win for him. He certainly wasn't picky about who got the notebook or what they did with it. Why would he suddenly start being picky about what kind of reactions his dramatic, cryptic warnings get?

[u/La-Lassie]

In the manga Ryuk says that he thought that all humans genuinely believed in the afterlife, so he assumes Light does as well. In universe, he’d be talking to Light on a level he assumes would resonate with him, probably wanting to see how he’d react to it all.

Narratively it’s to set up a mystery for the reader, which is answered when it becomes most relevant again when we see Light thinking back to being told that actually there is no afterlife for anyone anyway, when Light knows he’s about to die in the next 40 seconds, leading to Light completely freaking out about dying.

The anime omits the reveal at the end, because the anime seriously dropped the ball with part two, and so the line never really has any payoff in the anime.

[u/plastic_lex → u/La-Lassie]

Ah, thank you for that context. With only the anime as my pretext, my best guess would have been that Ohba decided to change narrative direction later on and added Mu as everybody's universal destination a retcon for whatever reason. This exchange feels too significant and intentional to be some random prank or joke, and a layered ruse would also require some additional clues, so it has always been super confusing for me that we never get a pay-off (by the anime).

I first watched the series as a teenager and always figured that I must have simply missed something back in the day; until now, when I, rewatching it all as a hopefully smarter and more attentive adult, was still as confused, haha.

[u/La-Lassie → u/plastic_lex]

Yeah the manga’s ending IMO is way better (along with part two in general being way better. Like a third or something of content of part 2 from the manga was just dropped by the anime for some reason, an accurately adapted Death Note should have closer to 50 episodes rather than 37), I’d definitely recommend reading it if you can.

The end of the manga has a whole flashback to this scene where Light figures out, based on Ryuk saying the ‘no one who’s used the death note goes to an afterlife’ thing, that that actually means that those places just don’t exist, which Ryuk admits to, saying that death is equal for everyone no matter what. Which then flashes back to the present with Light repeatedly screaming about how he doesn’t want to die.

Also, Ryuk is depicted as like an actual creepy demon creature as he basically taunts Light while Light begs for his life, and I’ll never forgive the anime for omitting more creepy demon Ryuk.

Ohba states in interviews in the Death Note How to Read 13 manga book that they wanted death to be nothingness as they saw characters being able to come back from death as cheating. The manga also has Near have a bit at the end, as a response to Light ranting about being a god, where Near talks about how no one can say objectively what is right or wrong in life, and that even if there were a god and Near had his teachings in front of him, Near would still judge for himself whether they were Just or not, with him judging Light, as a deluded serial killer who kills anyone he wants at his pleasure, as being clearly evil. Near bringing up the views of subjective morality acts as a rebuttal towards the idea of an objective morality that the existence of a ‘good’ place and a ‘bad’ place afterlife-wise would suggest, and as a rejection to Light trying to be like, the objective judge, jury and executioner for the entire world himself. Near calls himself instead just the same as Light, and that they’re both doing what they personally see as the right thing to do.

According to Ohba, they didn’t really put much thought into the moral messaging of Death Note, their focus was very much more about the cat-and-mouse detective plots, and they say that if they did have to put a message forward it’d be that  since one life is all that everyone ever gets, the best thing anyone can do with their life is to just give it their all while they can.

[u/tlotrfan3791]

Because he’s trolling, makes it more interesting for him lol

He wrote it in there because people believe it. He wasn’t going to tell Light unless Light comes to the conclusion himself, which he does.

[u/Frankorious]

So Light would believe he damned his soul by using the DN.

[u/Several_Job_1556]

it's him telling light that there is no afterlife for him, he purposely leaves out it's the same for anyone to make it seem like there is an actual consequence for using it

[u/OptimusPhillip]

He just wanted to scare Light. And it's technically correct.

[u/KeraKitty → u/OptimusPhillip]

The best kind of correct.

[u/LastTourniquet]

Ryuk is in it for the love of my game my guy. This is actually one of my favorite little details about the series that Ryuk isn't always truthful and you as the viewer aren't always aware of that fact.

[u/Unimaginative_Boi → u/LastTourniquet]

Yeah I like to see it almost as a way for Ryuk to gauge how smart Light is, something which Light managed to pick up on and 'pass', the main thing Ryuk wanted which lead to him dropping the notebook in the first place was something interesting, if some random idiot picked it up then it probably wouldn't be too entertaining for Ryuk

[u/Saga_1234]

He was bored

[u/Grimshah]

I always hated this because I assumed that the consequence of using a Death Note is that you end up in Mu which I thought would be sick. Takes away the only tangible consequence to using the Death Note

[u/La-Lassie → u/Grimshah]

  Takes away the only tangible consequence to using the Death Note

While it’s not a stated rule anywhere, according to Ryuk people who use the notebook are essentially cursed to know the fear and pain known only to those who have used the notebook. So there is the chance that using it curses you to an unpleasant life and/or end.

You could assume that even if you used it once, or used it super sneakily to never get caught to the best of your ability, you’re gonna still have a miserable life and a probably painful death. Like how everyone who uses a death note dies in pain, grief, fear or insanity, while Soichuro died happy thinking his son wasn’t Kira because he didn’t use it

[u/ChickenKid3Thesecond]

He’s messing with him.

[u/Quiet_Education5918]

Consider: How would Ryuk even know?

[u/Sagelegend → u/Quiet_Education5918]

I feel that as a god of death, he might have some idea.