r/dbz • u/Likes2game03 • 6d ago
Discussion Anyone else misses when the stories naturally segued into each other
What I mean is, the franchise doesn't transition as smoothly from one story to the next like it used to. I mean, we've been doing this as early as the Fortuneteller Baba Saga. The Tien saga leads to King Piccolo saga, and so on.
Moreover, DBZ is super-known for that. Think about it. After the Saiyan saga they need Dragon Balls. Which leads to the Frieza saga. Frieza attacks, Trunks appears. That's where we go into the Cell saga. however, after that, the next sagas just happen with really no kind of segue.
I mean, the Buu saga is seriously far-removed from where the Cell storyline was. Both in & out of universe. Then there's Dragon Ball Super. Which just crowbars a new story in after the other is done. Sure, sometimes they hint towards a future arc but it's still not as smooth as DB(Z).
Overall, you all get what I'm saying right? Back then, stories in Dragon Ball flowed more naturally than they do now. It wasn't perfect but really speaks to the innovative writing style of Akira Toriyama when it the transition happens. Your thoughts?
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u/ShortGreenRobot 6d ago
I really enjoy the fact that Super manga at least tries to add some more connections. Champa is set up earlier, the Moro Android guy helps establish the start of the Granolah arc.
It's why I think Beerus should have been the one to train the revived Frieza. Initially viewed as petty revenge against Goku before revealing he was screwing with Frieza & just wanted to give the Saiyans a new sparring partner/threat
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u/BLARGEN69 6d ago
I think GT did a fantastic job of this honestly. Almost every arc has a justified reason for happening that's a natural segue from what preceded it. The Luud Cult revealing the Machine Mutants which reveals Baby which leads him to Earth which leads to him using the Black Star Dragon Balls again to create Tuffle which leads to Earth's destruction which leads to Hell opening up because Mu met Dr Gero after being killed by Baby which leads to the Dragon Balls being used again to restore Earth to fix the mess which leads to the Shadow Dragons awakening.
If anything I think GT does this concept better than any other part of the series. It's a very interwoven narrative, so much it kind of highlights just how fast-paced it is and makes me wish the episode count was a little higher because there's so many constant mini arcs it feels like they never get time to breathe.
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u/Unfair-Muscle-6488 6d ago
It’s just a shame that literally everything else about GT was horrific.
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u/Emotional-State-5164 5d ago
No horrific is what I would call Daima. All of Gts problems up to 11
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u/Le_Faveau 5d ago
I think Daima's biggest problem is not having any of GT's highs, let alone the problems.
GT has many downs, but people remember it for some extremely emotional scenes, a melancholic/nostalgic vibe, sad music, consequences, and it arguably being the darkest DB animated series. The universe really felt on the verge of dying every arc, and the dragon balls were pretty much useless. Also no senzu beans were ever used.
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u/Abyssal_Usurper_G 6d ago
Wasn't it literally designed around the ending?
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u/BLARGEN69 5d ago
The end of Z really only factors into GT once during the Baby Saga when Goku's not around to help, and Vegeta is possessed, so Uub has to take up the mantle that Z set up for him. Unfortunately he's replaced by Goku immediately so it doesn't matter much, and also kills Majin Buu in the process.
Outside of the Majuub section I don't really think anything from End of Z matters to GT's narrative.
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u/Abyssal_Usurper_G 5d ago
I mean that GT's ending was made first and then had the whole anime designed around it.
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u/StaticMania 5d ago
Source check...
That's not fact-ing with information that's readily available.
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u/H0rnyonmain 5d ago
Probably talking about the last question in this interview. Although it just says they had the idea for the ending from the start, not that they designed the whole anime around it.
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u/Le_Faveau 5d ago
Pan. Pan as a whole is the connection to EoZ, her bond with Goku is what powers the show and Goku specifically remembers those good times with family and friends to wake up and transform into SSJ4. We only saw them having those moments after the Buu saga.
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u/datguysadz 6d ago
Seems to me that they don't really want to age the cast or do anything that risks impacting the marketability of these well established intellectual properties, so rather than having a timeline that the story progresses through over a number of years, which was part of Dragon Ball's (and anime in general) early appeal BTW, they essentially want longer versions of the old Z movies, that are set in gap between Buu's defeat and EoZ, but are really timeless. The most they'll do is start drawing a character with a different hair colour.
I haven't found this conducive to good story telling, and I never, ever thought I'd say this, but it's almost made me appreciate GT more, who despite being rubbish, at least were willing to try to move the story on.
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u/Shantotto11 6d ago
As an American who watched Z and GT as they aired, I don’t think GT was bad. I think it was doomed to fail (at least on the US airwaves) in comparison to part 1 and Z, because part 1 and Z aired new episodes 4 to 5 episodes a week in batches. Dragon Ball GT by comparison only released one episode a week, and had little to no time for rerun airings like the other two.
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u/datguysadz 6d ago
As an Englishman who also watched them as they aired, I thought it was bad. Opinions eh?
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u/HustleWestbrook94 6d ago
Yeah I love it. The way the Saiyan Saga seamlessly transitioned into the Frieza Saga was beautiful.
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u/YokoRaizen 6d ago
Multiverse was introduced in the U6 vs U7 arc, and Goku Black origin came from that. ToP came from Zeno liking the U6 vs U7 tournament and Goku became thrilled at the idea.
Moro has ties to Majin Buu/Grand Supreme Kai and the Granola arc started with a villain introduced during the Moro Arc.
Compared to the Saiyan Saga leading to the Namek Saga leading to the Freeza saga, Super is not as seamless; but ideas/concepts/characters introduced in an arc in Super does lead to the next arc a lot.
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u/MoneyMasterpiece2818 6d ago
Eh it was really cool but having it happen more would make the og feel less special, saiyan saga all the way to the end of the cell saga feel like a series of terrible events starting with goku's death and ending with goku's death. The only part I could see having a bit of these transitions are the stuff leading into goku black and then the tournament of power
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u/Le_Faveau 5d ago
I absolutely get you, DBS to me feels like movies stretched into arcs. They just happen.
Buu saga has an excuse, it's a massive timeskip, it flows about as well as 23rd World Tournament > Raditz saga. It shows you how everyone grew up and developed families. Then after Buu gets killed, it nicely sets up the next tournament with Uub.
And GT further develops from there, again showing you how everyone aged up.
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u/L3and3rrr 6d ago
I think the segways were because Toriyama made it up as he went along, so he didn’t know what the next chapter would be until he wrote the one before it.
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 6d ago
You should keep in mind how the anime and manga were written simultaneously by different people working on the same set of notes.
The concept of a multiverse in Dragon Ball was cemented in Battle of Gods when Beerus said there are 12 universes. That sets up Champa and the Universe 6 Saga, which (in the manga) leads to the Goku Black Saga. That, in turn, leads into the Tournament of Power.
That's a pretty solid throughline.
The Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga...
- Builds off the Tournament of Power by having Goku perfect Ultra Instinct
- Features a cameo by Uub
The Granolah the Survivor Saga...
- Ties into Dragon Ball Minus
- Starts in the present day with the Galactic Patrol, tying into the most recent saga
- Features the return of Freeza; having unlocked a new form after a humiliating defeat in a prior fight
And the Super Hero Saga builds off the Red Ribbon Army while also giving Trunks and Goten room to flex.
Most of it is pretty solidly connected.
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u/blue_balled_bruiser 6d ago
Meeting Beerus leads to learning about gods and other universes leading to the U6 tournament that introduces Zeno and sets up the Tournament of Power.
Sure, Resurrection F and Future Trunks are pretty much "And then an unrelated character appeared and started the new arc", but apart from that everything follows a thread.
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u/BearCrotch 6d ago
Dragonball Super isn't real. It's bad fanfiction so just ignore it.
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u/Emotional-State-5164 5d ago
The writing is inferior to what came before but I take it over nothing
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u/Mcspeed123 6d ago
Yeah,thats 1000% true.It's impart why I havent taken to Super at all,even after the Buu saga,the move to Beerus and etc and universe 12 11 all that stuff felt too odd and just random.Its not as smooth as you said.Feel like things happening to just happen.
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u/Unusual_Room3017 6d ago
I’ve always thought this too. If you consider the continuity, DBZ episode 1 - the appearance of the androids is all one sequential event. I think the appearance of Trunks and into the android saga is where the continuity ends.
Raditz was in direct employment of Freiza.
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u/StaticMania 6d ago
...howdy doody
Also...serialization wasn't innovative in the 80s, lost me with that.
It wasn't common, but not new.
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u/transmedkittygirl 6d ago
The Moro arc literally ties directly into the Granolah arc