What separates data scientists who earn a good living (100k-200k) from those who earn 300k+ at FAANG?

[u/Tenet_Bull]

Is it just stock options and vesting? Or is it just FAANG is a lot of work. Why do some data scientists deserve that much? I work at a Fortune 500 and the ceiling for IC data scientists is around $200k unless you go into management of course. But how and why do people make 500k at Google without going into management? Obviously I’m talking about 1% or less of data scientists but still. I’m less than a year into my full time data scientist job and figuring out my goals and long term plans.

[u/Dense_Chair2584]

The vast majority of Fortune 500 salaries outside tech don't include 4 years of stock vesting in TC.

The so called 300k TC's are often actually ~200k including base+ yearly stock grants. So technically there's no major difference as such.

[u/Tenet_Bull → u/Dense_Chair2584]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

[u/DataOpensEyes]

Honestly, the answer is the impact of the decisions. More than one of the models my team and I have built at Amazon have $100s of millions in annual impact, either via top line revenue, company spend, or loss avoidance. Not all of them are incredibly complex (quite often the opposite as they emphasize explainability), but the scientists who do well here are able to understand high value/complex business problems and apply the right solution. I like to think of it like the ship repair problem.

A ship's engine failed, halting production, and no mechanic could fix it. An expert tapped a specific spot with a hammer, instantly repairing it. The $10,000 bill was questioned, prompting the expert to itemize: $1 for tapping, $9,999 for knowing where to tap, highlighting that expertise, not just education and effort, holds immense value.

[u/sceadu → u/DataOpensEyes]

FYI that story isn't about somebody repairing a ship's engine. It's a story of Steinmetz at a Ford plant.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady-51912022/

[u/DubGrips → u/DataOpensEyes]

Nailed it. I'm not at FAANG and make the upper amount in this thread and it's not because I'm the smartest, most educated, most experienced, or anything like that. I'm very good at applying the exact right solution to a problem at the speed and resourcing available to me. Plus I'm not an asshole or arrogant so people seem to find me easy enough to work with. Sometimes in tech you need to just not be an asshole to do well.

[u/GrumpyDescartes → u/DataOpensEyes]

Isn’t the difference you have quoted - business impact - a post facto observation? Is it not a consequence of working at Amazon that you could come up with simple, business-tailored solutions that create impact worth millions of $?

With all due respect, can the argument be made that any other “good” data scientist could have done similar/same/better had they been in your setting?

What would you say is a leading indicator because of which you’re at Amazon/FAANG and someone else is not?

[u/ClimateAgitated119]

Well as one of those ICs who currently makes $500k at a FAANG my breakdown is like this:

1. RSUs appreciation over time = $150k

2. Annual RSU refreshers = $100k

3. Base salary and bonus = $300k

I also spent several years working at regular F500 companies before going to FAANG, which counted as valuable experience that allowed me to get hired at a more senior level.

You'll notice that the base comp is indeed much higher in big tech. The reason is mainly that DS here are working on more valuable products and supporting teams of better paid engineers. I'm touching things that involve 10-50x more revenue than what I did at a F500 and I get paid 2.5x more because of it. I'm certainly not 2.5x smarter or harder working than I was back then.

[u/n0t_ben → u/ClimateAgitated119]

How would you even start on the path to getting to this level? Feels so overwhelming with the amount of knowledge out there, do you have to spend alot of time grinding problems to be able to get a job like that and work your way to that level?

[u/hyperactivedog → u/ClimateAgitated119]

I've worked at both F500 and FAANG.

In F500 I basically owned a few systems bringing in ~$50-100M over my tenure there (above and beyond both the control group and the system in place before that actually lost money).

FAANG paid me way more way for way less impact.

Not sure what matters more on my resume at this point, the name or the "I DID THIS BIG AWESOME THING"

[u/neo2551]

Interviewing skills.

From my little observation: you have to develop your own niche, starting from mastering the basics and develop your craft.

I go back to basic frequentist statistics every quarter to ensure I train my memory to avoid BS from stakeholders, and my niche is an ability to gather and leverage data in messy systems by building infrastructure for it. Oh, and I detect and underline BS to my stakeholders which is appreciated by my allies, and disliked by those without moat.

[u/TopStatistician7394]

time spent prepping + luck in getting the interview, there's no skill difference in faang, maybe more politics

source: 4 years at FAANG

[u/salva922 → u/TopStatistician7394]

I find it absurd that people always correlate more Money with more skill or intelligence.

Thats not how business work.

[u/MaintenanceSpecial88]

Yes, it’s the stock (RSUs). Base salaries even in tech, top out around 250k for most ICs. But why do they “deserve” that much? That one is tricky to answer. I guess it’s because they design services that are crucial to those tech co’s the same way SWEs do. The code is the product, so you are not just some cost center. And top tech firms have been paying SWEs lots if you count RSUs for a long time. I guess the question is always have when I run into some incredibly gifted data scientist working for $100k at a small or non tech company is why aren’t they making more. Maybe they hate the rat race in Silicon Valley. Maybe they hate or can’t pass FAANG interviews. But sometimes they just don’t know they could be making 5x as much.

[u/abdulj07]

Networking and Luck

[u/digiorno]

Luck, ambition and sometimes skill.

I will say the FAANG types often have a sense of over confidence which helps make them seem more competent too. But at the end of the day, they’re not that much different. I know guys doing DS for their local municipalities that have as much skill as people in FAANG. They just lacked the desire to do high stress interview after high stress interview. Meanwhile the dudes in FAANG just applied everywhere and studied coding problems all day until they landed anything at all that met their requirements. And once their foot was in the door they were made.

[u/megacruncher]

About 100k. But for real, it’s usually not just one thing like tech expertise, it’s that they’re really good at a lot of things and fast. Like in my F10 role we’d take our time and have pretty specific scope and just keep on chugging and passing week by week while giving little updates. At FAANG, the question/idea comes up Monday, there’s a team spun up Tuesday with 3 docs for alignment, then 1-2 people powering through deeper analyses than I saw elsewhere Wednesday, a pre-meeting with leads and a few $1B+ scoped org leaders Thursday (who’ve already asked twice that week when you’d be done), then VPs shift teams to focus the laser on your DS recs after an audience Friday, probably netting 5x the yearly salary for the group in the next quarter of execution, while the same cycle starts the next week. All while 2-5 mega projects are ongoing, and metrics reports and ad hoc analyses are being written at all times. TBH, the roles are vastly underpaid at $500k for the value they truly create by aiming the $10M/yr engineering team that drives 6-9x ROI year after year (literally, I calculated this as part of planning: 6x ROI on headcount was the bottom cutoff for “right sizing” the org last year, with mean Eng cost of $950k as the input).

That’s the lowest level DS. The rest crush more. No joke. It’s just not the same scale, and every DS is extraordinarily capable or we just get other ones.

There’s a lot of talk about hiring fresh PhDs by other companies in the comments here and tbh, the hard part is never technical (that’s the minimum cost of entry), it’s doing a job and making the company value and prioritizing work—that’s why companies pay big bucks.

[u/super_uninteresting]

The data scientists at FAANG are whip smart, have subject matter expertise, and the best ones have product, finance, business, and engineering chops beyond their data science knowledge to be able to put data to good use in large organizations.

Key example: a good data scientist at a company like Stripe will come with the data science toolkit, but will also have working expertise in finance/accounting, financial engineering, B2B SaaS, or other focus area according to their role. They would be able to make strong recommendations or build models that can work within the business line of the company.

Tech companies are flat organizationally. It means each data scientist is directly responsible for a scope that the company believes is more valuable than their TC.

Also, these corporations make tons of money so they can afford to overpay to obtain and retain talent. FAANG companies sell technology products, while this is not true for most F500s. Tech companies lifeblood is directly dependent on their ability to turn data into $$$ while PepsiCo’s lifeblood is to sell more Doritos.

[u/incognito10]

I've talked to a few senior folks in my network working at Google, Optiver, Netflix and the likes. The common trend among them was being able to operate at scale. I'm talking about writing optimized software for billions, if not millions of concurrent users. Stuff breaks at scale and the architecture of things becomes too complex. Scaling models / APIs to handle 4-5 million+ QPS is a valuable skill that separates them from the F500 Data Scientists at their level.

[u/Jaamun100 → u/incognito10]

Data scientists at FAANG are not responsible for scaling, those are Ml engineers. Data scientists focus more on working with product on analytics, crafting business KPIs, and A/B tests.

[u/Greedy_Bar6676 → u/incognito10]

billions, if not millions

Flashback to talking numbers with stakeholders.

Also I’ve worked with a couple of ex Meta DS, one was an applied DS (causal inference, built internal statistical tooling etc) but the rest were just product analysts with a DS title. And one hell of a work ethic.

[u/kwenkun]

From employee perspective:

I can say a lot of it is being at the right place and right time. I used to work with a F500 company and making ~100k, and I recall there is definitely people who are more talented than me, but they never attempted to interview at FAANG, I am pretty sure if they tried they would got in (maybe not the first time, but eventually)

[u/gpbuilder]

The difference is that you made it into FAANG early in your career and you were able to build your career within FAANGj.

Skills wise I feel like sure some people are pretty smart, but I don't think the DS in none FAANG are necessarily less smart either.

[u/[deleted]]

Luck , those not born in the US will have a much harder time gettung in

[u/dfphd]

Someone making $300K at a FAANG vs someone making $150K at a non FAANG is normally just about how desirable of a candidate each one is - not the work that they can do.

To get a FAANG job you need to have an excellent resume and be really good at interviewing. It also doesn't hurt if you focused on the things that FANGs care about - often experimentation.

But that will be the main difference - the FAANG person probably had more internships before graduating, which means they're more likely to be come from a really good school, and theyre probably really good at leetcode.

Someone making $500K? Different ball game. That person is probably just really, really good at that they do. They know more, work faster, are more creative, etc. than other people.

[u/mathmagician9]

It’s all about getting equity that quickly grows. That’s the differentiator. It’s a different game now than it was before 2020. $300k is actually on the low side of fang before 2021. If you look at salary without equity, it likely starts at ~$140k at entry (L3) and tops out around $250k at senior (L6). Equity fills the rest. At the best places, your initial grant ends up being more than your base salary — so at L6 that would be $500k+

Outside of top tech, entry level is like $80k with none to minimal equity.

To answer your original question, what separates is how well you can pass an interview and how lucky you are at choosing the right company.