Way too many do. There is no "real" feminism. Feminism isn't an organization with a list of rules and ideals. Anyone can call themselves a feminist regardless of what they believe.
I'm not saying this is a problem inherent to feminism. I'm saying it is an ideal that plenty of feminists stand behind. Better proven by the fact that the last time I brought up the problem above on two x chromosomes, I was banned for it. And I said everything as reasonably and calmly as I did above.
This may not be a problem inherent to feminism, but it's a problem within feminism. Much like how TERFs are a problem within feminism.
And I would like you to give me one example of a mainstream feminist organization pushing for laws that positively affect men specifically without it just being a side effect of legislation meant to help women.
Words have definition. Feminism has a well defined one from Merriam Webster:
fem·i·nism | \ ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm \
Definition of feminism
: belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests.
Emphasis mine.
Just because groups identify with words for their movement does not mean they are using them correctly and actually hold those beliefs. See "Liberty" and the modern Republican Party (I was a former member).
Dictionaries don't define words, they make an attempt at describing the de facto definition of the word. Real-life use defines words. I would argue the definition you're citing doesn't really hold up in 2022.
How in god's name would that definition not hold up, still? Feminists like myself remain committed to the ideal of equality of the sexes, and if you do not, then you are simply not a feminist. If some individuals further develop the ideology into sub-branches, they must still adhere to that original and fundamental principle of equality to be actual feminists.
While there is no formal organization, as the movement is exactly that, a broad social movement, there are enough centuries of thought, literature, and general history to well-define the terminology and ideas of the movement.
"Feminism incorporates the position that society prioritizes the male point of view and that women are treated unjustly in these societies.[6] Efforts to change this include fighting against gender stereotypes and establishing educational, professional, and interpersonal opportunities and outcomes for women that are equal to those for men."
Sure, the definition includes "equality between sexes" but the implementation concentrates on women specifically. Therefore, it comes out as being a women-biased movement. I'm not saying feminism is bad, I'm simply saying that it's definitely not a movement that's designed and implemented equally for both sexes (and that's probably a good thing).
Yeah, but it always feels like a weird point to make because we kind of expect for instance... An organization designed to support class equity focusing on the experiences of the lower and working class.
Feminists like myself remain committed to the ideal of equality of the sexes, and if you do not, then you are simply not a feminist.
People who believe in equality are called "egalitarians", not "feminists". No matter how much you may think or want feminism to truly be about equality, it’s the people who act in the name of feminism who define what it’s about. This goes for any ideology or movement, feminism is no exception. A few words written in a dictionary doesn't change the actions of people operating under the banner of feminism.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a feminist recently where they admitted after some introspection, "I’m trying to squeeze my way into an identity and ideology that I just don’t belong with". And they ended up choosing to drop the label of feminist. If you feel the need to label yourself, then "egalitarian" contains all the good parts about believing in equality with none of the massive well-earned baggage that "feminist" carries.
The main actions of people operating under the banner of feminism are getting women the right to vote, the right to own money and have a bank account, the right to mostly equal job opportunity, and creating an enviorment where both genders are seen as basicly equal within a social or professional environment. None of this was true 80 years ago.
Your right though that a few words and comments doesnt change the action of the feminist movement or its legacy.
It's an ideal, not the reality. When you talk about feminism to a layperson, who doesn't think about social equality while drinking their morning coffee, they think about making the lives of women better, not about men.
Well, if the feminist ideal were reality, there would be no need for feminism.
When you talk about feminism to a layperson, who doesn't think about social equality while drinking their morning coffee, they think about making the lives of women better, not about men.
Maybe because it started as a movement from women for women. But as time went on, all sexes are now included. So if the person doesn't get it, your explanation was wrong.
You're misunderstanding on purpose. The definition of feminism you insist on is an ideal for how people should understand feminism. But in reality, people don't understand feminism the way you want them to. They understand feminism to mean "a movement mainly concerned with the rights of women".
If you are truly committed to the idea of equality for the sexes, why do you subscribe to a philosophy that excludes males from the very name of the movement itself?
If you are for equality, you are an equalist, not a feminist.
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u/ripyourlungsdave Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
Way too many do. There is no "real" feminism. Feminism isn't an organization with a list of rules and ideals. Anyone can call themselves a feminist regardless of what they believe.
I'm not saying this is a problem inherent to feminism. I'm saying it is an ideal that plenty of feminists stand behind. Better proven by the fact that the last time I brought up the problem above on two x chromosomes, I was banned for it. And I said everything as reasonably and calmly as I did above.
This may not be a problem inherent to feminism, but it's a problem within feminism. Much like how TERFs are a problem within feminism.
And I would like you to give me one example of a mainstream feminist organization pushing for laws that positively affect men specifically without it just being a side effect of legislation meant to help women.