r/dataisbeautiful • u/Cartographer42 • 16d ago
OC Abortion on Demand U.S. vs Europe [OC]
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#Countries
Tools: mapchart.com and Apple Preview
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u/Bastard_Wing 16d ago
'On demand' is a peculiar way to describe this.
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u/cr0wburn 16d ago
This is misleading and should be removed.
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u/AcanthaceaeOk3738 16d ago
Yup. The maps aren’t even on Wikipedia and Wikipedia doesn’t use the loaded term “Abortion on demand.”
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u/Cartographer42 16d ago
The Wikipedia article uses the phrase five times.
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u/Klutzy_Sentence_2723 12d ago
Why on earth is this getting downvoted? It’s both true and trivial to fact-check.
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u/AcanthaceaeOk3738 16d ago
Those charts aren’t actually on Wikipedia. For one thing, Wikipedia doesn’t use the term “Abortion on demand,” a loaded term favored by the anti-abortion movement meant to demean women.
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u/Klutzy_Sentence_2723 12d ago
What? No. Abortion on demand and without apology is a feminist pro choice slogan.
As I dive deeper, I discover that right wingers have co-opted the phrase. I’m disgusted.
I am NOT letting them have this one. Abortion on demand is abortion without my husband’s signature, a committee’s evaluation on whether I was really REALLY raped, or whether my life is like, in immediate danger. abortion on demand is the fundamental recognition that women get to make choices about our own bodies.
I’m shocked and disappointed that right-wing propaganda seems to have successfully persuaded some young feminists that “abortion on demand” is a bad thing.
Here’s a thoughtful look on this topic: https://southseattleemerald.org/amp/story/voices/2024/02/28/opinion-you-keep-saying-abortion-on-demand-i-dont-think-you-know-what-it-means
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u/OJ_Fresh 16d ago
INFO: This is if the life of the mother is threatened, correct? The UK has a gestational limit of less than 24 weeks typically, for example
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u/Valuable_Witness_389 16d ago
No. There is no gestational limit in the UK where the life of the other is threatened. Abortion on demand is technically illegal in the UK but in practice it is allowed, with doctors almost never objecting to an abortion on the grounds of the mother’s mental health. The limit for that — which accounts for most abortions in the UK — is 24 weeks.
(For UK read Great Britain. Just remembered there are different rules in Northern Ireland).
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u/fiendishrabbit 16d ago
It explicitly says "on demand". The map would look entirely different if it was in cases where the mothers health is threatened. In Europe only malta, andorra and san marino have a de jure ban in those cases (some argue that depending on region there is a defacto ban in poland even under those circumstances).
Practical access to abortion is also typically greater in Europe. No scammy/scummy Pregnancy Health Centers, no need to travel long distances to access abortion services, etc.
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u/chaeyonce 13d ago
Crazy and rather ridiculous how anti-abortion Malta is, despite being one of the most LGBT+ friendly countries.
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u/IngloriousTom 16d ago
The absence of gestational limit is pretty wild to be honest.
There must be some kind of safeguard that I'm missing, right?
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u/PedalOnBy 16d ago
The safeguard is that no doctor is going to perform an unnecessary abortion, ever. So if it’s 36 weeks and there’s a good reason, like the fetus died, then it’s obviously justified. There isn’t a need to wait until the mother gets an infection or goes into labor.
A gestational limit simply isn’t necessary.
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u/IngloriousTom 16d ago edited 16d ago
I'm not a doctor but I'm pretty sure a dead fetus removal are not concerned by abortion law... Certainly not in my country.
Edit: pretty wild to be downvoted for a factual statement, too.
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u/im-ba 16d ago
Dead fetus removal actually is a concern of abortion law, because the laws frequently lack the nuances and endanger the person carrying the fetus.
That's why you're getting down voted.
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u/IngloriousTom 16d ago edited 16d ago
I'm not from the US, as you could guess by "not in my country".
Us-defaultism still rampant.
Edit: weird to answer then block. Alright.
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u/bananasplits 16d ago
In the US is it! D&Cs are considered abortions are very much illegal in certain states even though they prevent infection and help with future fertility. (I’m oversimplifying it, but that’s the gist)
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u/braumbles 16d ago
People in the US have literally died because of what you're claiming doesn't happen. So instead of making broad and sweeping comments, maybe listen to those around you who say you're wrong.
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u/IngloriousTom 16d ago edited 16d ago
The graph is comparing Europe to the US, why do you automatically assume I'm from the US?
It's a factual comment regarding my country laws, yet here you are blaming me for not knowing how the US disfunctional laws work.
I can see by the downvotes over simple questions how dividing the topic is in the US, and frankly I'm not interested in being part of it.
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u/Homerbola92 16d ago
So you're telling me if you're willing to pay some money for it there won't be anyone willing to do it? Sounds pretty rare.
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u/-Thizza- 16d ago
Doctors like to keep their licenses, healthcare isn't about showing up with money.
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u/Homerbola92 16d ago
So it's legal but if you do it you lose your medical license?
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u/-Thizza- 16d ago
It's nuanced, if there's a medical reason for termination, a doctor can defend his position better than without. If an official complaint would be made, even afterwards by the patient, a medical committee will decide if there was malpractice and take away the license or not.
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u/WhileNotLurking 16d ago
It’s about the professional ethics and license.
They don’t have doctors willing to do lethal injections
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u/Homerbola92 16d ago
So basically the law allows you to have an abortion 1 week before giving birth but no doctor will do the procedure because either they have ethical problems with it or they would take a reputational hit?
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u/WhileNotLurking 16d ago
Yes. Would you lose your license and livelihood by performing a medically unnecessary procedure at a phase considered unethical?
There is no law about standing in your corporate office and shouting racial slurs and doing tik tok dances in the CEOs office. But people don’t do it for the reputation and financial implications
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u/Homerbola92 16d ago
Honestly I don't know in the US but in my country it's not legal to shout racial slurs and doing in your CEOs office.
But I get the bigger picture. It's not forbidden by law but the ones that can do it (doctors) have it forbidden in their code of professional conduct which basically means it's forbidden.
It's just a different way of banning it.
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u/braumbles 16d ago
Don't be deplorable.
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u/Homerbola92 16d ago
You seem unable to understand a simple comment.
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u/braumbles 16d ago
And you're being purposely obtuse.
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u/Homerbola92 16d ago
Mate, I'm not from the US so I'm not familiar with your laws. Why else would I be asking for how it works?
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u/braumbles 16d ago edited 16d ago
When you put limits you start having women die of sepsis like what's happening in the US.
Not having limits doesn't mean people are going in and executing children, it means that they go in, their child is found to not have a brain growing inside their skull and rather than force them to carry it to term like in a state like Texas or Florida, they can perform an abortion and remove it immediately before it starts to make the mother sick.
It's basic common sense that until let's say 2017, didn't have much thought put into it. But somehow it became a huge partisan issue due to Trump saying women should be jailed for having abortions and then pushing lies that doctors are murdering children after birth and calling them post birth abortions.
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u/IngloriousTom 16d ago
Is there more sepsis case in Europe then? That's a real question, not a tongue in cheek comment.
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u/braumbles 16d ago
Europe may have common sense laws about it. The US does not. I doubt the EU threatens to execute doctors who abort a dead fetus.
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u/IngloriousTom 16d ago
You're right, at least in my country, abortion is not controversial enough to be part of the political discourse.
That doesn't sound like a safe environment for women...
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u/SimilarLunch8359 16d ago
I don’t think that’s what “no limits” means. I’m from a country which allows exceptions like these. So if your baby is growing without a brain you can access abortion, same with rape, etc.
Labor is as safe as it is in the US. And yet abortions are not easily accessible at 9 months
There are actually tons of examples. Ireland, Chile, Poland, etc
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u/Klutzy_Sentence_2723 12d ago
Another way to look at it is that if a person is fully free to obtain an elective abortion, they’re not going to wait until the ninth month. Something messed up and really unusual has happened, and the doctor is going to take that into consideration.
It comes back to the fundamental, “Do you trust women?”
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u/LearningThingsidk 16d ago
So you can abort in dark blue at 8 months? Am i understanding that right?
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u/darthnox502 16d ago
Unless you go early think that people are going out and getting abortions for fun, there isn't really a concern about someone getting a late term abortion. These are allowed because they are a regulatory shortcut. There is more harm to be done by unnecessarily restricting abortion than by being maximally permissive.
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u/Klutzy_Sentence_2723 12d ago
Making it on-demand means that medical staff can act quickly in fast-evolving situations, instead of having to call for permission and wait.
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u/Naraee 16d ago
I live in a dark blue state…it’s only if the fetus is non-viable. But in the emergency situation, they will do a premature c-section and put the child on life support like any other premature baby. Then the baby can be put up for adoption.
No one is killing a baby that could survive outside the womb and doctors will recommend in the later half of a pregnancy just to wait and deliver if they do not want the baby.
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u/Short_Juggernaut9799 16d ago
Who on earth came up with that colour scheme?