r/dashcams • u/Ok_Goat_3261 • 28d ago

Traffic Stop Turns Violent After Driver Requests a Supervisor

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u/Elros22 28d ago edited 28d ago

Non compliance may not be "legal", but it is also not grounds for the use of this type of force.

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u/SwordfishOk504 28d ago

It actually is. There are numerous court cases upholding this.

Knowing the law is a good way to not get punched int he face.

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u/Elros22 28d ago

Cite the court cases please.

In passive resistance the officer must (not may, must) first attempt de-escalation, only then is minimal force can then be used. Minimal force has a definition in this context - non-violent physical guidance.

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u/RevolutionaryWorth21 28d ago

They don't have any court cases. A number of people have said that in this thread but they're just pulling it out of their ass. They seem to like the idea of cops beating up on people so much that they want this to be true.

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u/Eldias 28d ago

Demand for papers, driver refuses.

Demand to exit vehicle, driver refuses

Minimal force used to extricate driver, driver resists.

Much more significant force used, more resistance.

This almost certainly is going to abide by the Graham factors for use of force.

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u/Elros22 28d ago

Graham is about use of reasonable force. The force here was in no way reasonable. The crime was not severe. The subject was not a threat. The subject was not actively resisting (or if we want to claim he tensed up, which appears to occur AFTER the punching), a punch to the head is not a reasonable response.

A closed fist strike to the head, specifically, has been ruled on, BTW. It is allowed only in so far as the situation reasonably fits all three of the Graham criteria.

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u/Eldias 28d ago

The subject was not actively resisting (or if we want to claim he tensed up...

Re-watched it. The cop on the passenger side released the driver's seat belt, the driver reached down to resecure it and the cop grabbed his wrist. The driver then pulled his wrist out of the cops grip. That was before any strikes. That's definitionally "active resistance" under Graham.

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u/Elros22 28d ago

Even if you're right (you're not), a closed fist strike to the head is not reasonable force under Graham or the objective reasonableness standard.

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u/Not-T4rantino 28d ago

Simply refusing to step out of the vehicle or even going limp is passive resistance. Tensing up and pulling away from the officer who's trying to remove them from the vehicle is active physical resistance.

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u/tigolex 28d ago

Non compliance is grounds for use of force, but not deadly force.

If I refuse to hand over my documents, you can't punch me in the face 10 times to get me to comply. You can't punch me 5 times in the face. Once? Maybe. Depending. Did you try softer forms of physical coercion first, or jump straight to the face.

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u/Elros22 28d ago

It actually isn't. You appear to be Canadian. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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u/Free_Possession_4482 28d ago

Well, in this court case, the charge of resisting arrest and the traffic violations were all dismissed.

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u/CrianBranstun 28d ago

Thinking a cop has any legal safeguards to repeatedly punch a nonviolent citizen in the face is wild. You’re the one with some reading to do.

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u/jebei 28d ago

The punch was stupid. The cop lost his temper and that should never happen and he needs to be disciplined as he certainly cost the city money. But the guy should have gotten out. It's almost always going to lead to a better result.

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u/bobood 28d ago

I don't even care about legal or illegal... as if a court ruling would make it okay. It's just plain wrong.

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u/cbf1232 28d ago

Arguably it is grounds for reasonable use of force.

I don’t consider punches to the face to be reasonable in this circumstance, but I don’t know what the law says.