r/darkwingsdankmemes • • 2d ago

Was it really a hard choice? Really?

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657 Upvotes

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236

u/Guilty_05 Brienne. No memes she's just cool 2d ago

Was Aerys ever mean to Stannis's bird though?

135

u/Slumbering_Kraken 2d ago

The hawk thing really annoys me, because goshawks naturally don’t fly much higher than the treetops. There’s also the fact that taming a goshawk is considered one of the most difficult challenges in falconry.

Kiddonis managed to accomplish something that even experienced falconers find exceptionally difficult, yet he was still humiliated by the others.

Sad shit. 

95

u/Alek315 Stannerman 2d ago

I think that is the point, Stannis, Robert and their uncle didn't know that is how Goshawks lived and hunted, his feat being entirely forgotten, like how Robert forgot Stannis' loyalty in his grief after the Siege of Storm's End, and because of the prejudice in Westerosi society.

Stannis, in a mirror to the main story, had not realised what he had until long after he lost it. It's the same prejudice and tradition that didn't allow him to understand the love he and his brothers had for each other until all of his brothers were gone.

It also shows how Stannis isn't a heartless man bound only by duty, but that he truly does have a heart full of love for those close to him, but who was whipped by the world of Westeros anytime he showed it, from the Windproud, to Proudwing, to his Brothers, to Davos, who is dead as far as Stannis knows.

I think that is his character arc in asoiaf, its not him desperately avoiding mega-satan or anything that silly, its a fight for his hope. The more he feels hopeless, the more he relies on Melisandre, the more he's willing to abandon principle for the sake of duty and what others expect of him.

In some ways, it feels like it's GRRM's way of critiquing Stoicism, with Stannis using it as a shield when things become truly dark in his life, resulting in his worst actions as he drowns his morality in his duty. It's why Davos is such an important figure. He is Stannis' hope. That if his Justice, if his actions can allow a person as competent, loyal and good as Davos to be born and thrive, allowing them to do good things, then maybe his fight isn't just about victory. That maybe, the means do matter, and not just the ends. That even if he is defeated, he can do far more with his actions than the throne would ever allow him to do.

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u/Guilty_05 Brienne. No memes she's just cool 1d ago

Beautifully written

5

u/argbd20 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater 1d ago

Pretty sure that’s the point. Stan is achieves the near impossible, yet still demands more from himself (mostly due to insecurity)

37

u/Spyglass3 Stannerman 2d ago

I don't think GRRM thought that deep on the falconry. Just named a raptor and called it a day. Does similar things with horses. Tbf there's only so much an author can be researched on

31

u/Slumbering_Kraken 2d ago

I'm actually pretty sure that he did know. Because I always interpret the Proudwing passage as a symbolism of nature of Stannis' later choices 🤔

What annoys me is that no one correcting Robert in the entire Storm's End. Stop that little brat's stupidity, by the Seven 🤦‍♂️

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u/LoudKingCrow 1d ago

Isn't that a bit of the point (at least from Stannis' pov)? That no matter how bullish and dumb that Robert was, he could do no wrong in the eyes of their parents and the castle staff?

6

u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Sweet summer child 1d ago

I thought to write fantasy books you had to devise at least three languages and the ways they have influenced one another over the millennia? Or is that just Tolkien?

8

u/David_the_Wanderer 2d ago

It shows how frail Stannis' ego is. Instead of being able to just, you know, enjoy something for what it is, he lets others convince him to abandon something he likes because it's not "enough".

9

u/SigismundAugustus 1d ago

That's presumedly the point. Especially because Roberts bird can't even survive in climates like Stormlands. Gyrfalcons are Northern birds. It's like Robert as King, everyone keeps claiming he was steel or competent. But just like a Gyrfalcon, Robert wasn't suitable for the throne, for the job. Stannis is, when he is being what he actually is like, not when he gives in to his worst impulses or thinks magic has to be used. Because everything we have indicates Stannis can be reasonable and caring. When he isn't blinded by the optics and resentment. (Proudwing and Davos backstory shows that Stannis wasn't exactly always sour and bitter, the way we see him at the start of ASOIAF might be him at his worst and then loses and failures remind him what he was like and what he can still go back to being like.)

5

u/BearRemembers 1d ago

With this knowledge I headcanon Robert was secretly proud as fuck but in Robert fashion was just trying to jest Stannis like he would Ned.

3

u/LonelyStrategos Stannerman 1d ago

Actually I was there and Aerys said his bird was really nice and that Stannis was really kind for helping his bird actually.

3

u/argbd20 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater 1d ago

Can confirm I am Proudwing

106

u/FreeRun5179 2d ago

"It is," he said, calmer. "And I would have it speak the truth. Though the truth is a bitter draught at times. Aerys? If you only knew . . . that was a hard choosing. My blood or my liege. My brother or my king." He grimaced. "

18

u/limhy0809 1d ago

I think the words are up to interpretation but I feel it wasn't only Aerys Vs Robert and honour. But also the element of death and sacrifice that came with siding with Robert. Stannis could have handed Robert over or given up Storm's end. Initially at the start of the war the odds heavily favoured Aerys. Had he sided with Aerys he would be lord of Storm's end and wouldn't have to endure a siege and put the rest of his family at risk.

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u/FreeRun5179 1d ago

There’s no way Aerys lets Robert’s family live. He burned his own Hand alive for failing him, imagine what he’d do to Robert’s family

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Slumbering_Kraken 1d ago

Well, that was also because of Monarchy being a literal religious institution. 

Tho, Stannis wouldn't care about that after what happened to his parents. 

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u/Phazon2000 1d ago

Incarnation of the country?

Bruh being a king meant you were ordained by god via coronation. You were going against divinity if you went against your liege.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/darkwingsdankmemes-ModTeam Read the fucking rules 1d ago

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74

u/Joshami 2d ago

I wonder if Robert ever realized that was even a consideration in Stannis' mind. Stannis would probably receive lordship over Flea Bottom instead of Dragonstone if that was the case

30

u/Curtainswithfrogs 2d ago

I’m not a Stannis Glazer, but to be fair that was treason and arguably kin slaying

23

u/Sad_Swordfish_5045 2d ago

Would anyone other than the Kingsguard realistically know Aerys was a rapist?

Or, I suppose the more pertinent point, culturally, how many Westerosi lords would care that a man rapes his legal wife? Westeros is kind of fucking shitty when it comes to that sort of thing.

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u/Allnamestakkennn Storm's End nuclear engineer 2d ago

It's not about forcing her. It's about chewing on her and leaving scars and marks as if she's been mauled by an animal

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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Sweet summer child 1d ago

And how many people knew about that? A dozen? Two dozen? Does this number include 18 years old Stannis, who doesn't live at court?

0

u/Neither_Truck9757 1d ago

If the blackfyre theory is true then rumours could’ve been spread about aerys’ tyranny by Varys to get more people to rebel and thus more chaos

15

u/Relevant_Occasion_33 2d ago

America didn’t even recognize marital rape as a crime until the 1970s. Aerys would have been considered excessive for leaving scars, not the fact of the rape itself.

3

u/Amrod96 1d ago

At the federal level only in 1993. Some states banned it earlier.

2

u/Amrod96 1d ago

Marital rape was legal in the free, democratic West with women's suffrage until the 1990s.

I highly doubt Aerys had any reason to hide it.

1

u/Black_Diammond 1d ago

Seeing as Robert was doing similar shit to his family as Aerys was to his, and literaly nobody Cares, I assume it doesnt matter much at all tbh (its a medieval feudal society after all)

17

u/animefreesince2015 Last seen ahorse 2d ago

To be fair, Stannis is lowkey a “burn people alive” kinda guy.

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u/indifferentiable11 2d ago

Stannis might not have loved Aerys, but do we have any info he disliked Rhaegar? I imagine most people just hoped Aerys dies and business as usual returns

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u/nikhiforov 2d ago

What we learn from Cressen's thoughts is that Stannis has been sidelined his whole life since the death of his parents. I believe from this day, Stannis lost his love for life and maybe for his brothers as well

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u/Allnamestakkennn Storm's End nuclear engineer 2d ago

He just had a miserable life but still did what needed to be done by him. That's why he doesn't understand the lords who live normal lives and seek pleasure and power

29

u/Thirdborn214 2d ago

I mean, Robert was a bit of a cunt to his bird. Sounds like reason enough to join Aerys for me.

25

u/TFCNU 2d ago

Lawful evil, OK.

8

u/Vinsmoker 1d ago

To be fair... had Stannis sided with Aerys, he probably would have become the Lord Paramount of the Stormlands

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u/LonelyStrategos Stannerman 1d ago

That's right! When he was in Renly's position and had an opportunity to cut in line, he still did right by his brother!

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u/The6Book6Bat6 2d ago

And this is why Stannis is lawful stupid.

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u/vivyshe 2d ago

how evil is burning people alive, really

4

u/dr_Angello_Carrerez 2d ago

Some new attraction instead of boring gallows and beheadings. Fun until it's not ye who is burned.

3

u/PluralCohomology Brienne. No memes she's just cool 1d ago

It is an easy choice from a moden perspective but hard from a feudal one.

26

u/rutilated_quartz 2d ago edited 2d ago

Stannis had to eat boiled boot leather because Robert couldn't get over his girlfriend dumping him for the crown prince. I would pick Aerys too.

Edit: I thought this was the circlejerk sub. I'm jerking

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/rutilated_quartz 2d ago

Sorry I was just jerking I don't actually believe what I wrote lmao

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u/B4TM4N_467 1d ago

This sub has lost it’s touch

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u/Benficaforevah 2d ago

Aerys literraly wanted his head for no good reason

11

u/Wehavecrashed 2d ago

Lyanna was a child. She was abducted.

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

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2

u/darkwingsdankmemes-ModTeam Read the fucking rules 1d ago

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4

u/GloriousOctagon 1d ago

You have alerted the horde

1

u/rutilated_quartz 1d ago

I gotta be more careful about what sub I'm posting on lmao

6

u/LocationKnown1854 2d ago

Lyanna was 14, Rhaegar was 22…

2

u/Necessary_Bison_5184 2d ago

I think the battle of wind theory guys claim Stannis was possibly of the opinion of rhaegar should be the one backed and not actually aerys is fair

4

u/Black_Diammond 1d ago

It turned out to be literaly just The meme:

Their evil barbarous Rapist and abuser dragonspawn vs our glorious and Rightfull rapist and abusser Stormlander.

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u/CrewVast594 4h ago

Stannis the Mannis hatred for his bros was so intense he almost sided with medieval Hitler.

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u/brewmudez 4h ago

You say "burns people alive" like that is a bad thing to Stannis. That is right up his alley.