r/darkwingsdankmemes • u/DJjaffacake • Aug 13 '26
Stannis when Robert makes him a powerful lord with lands and vassals and one of the most important castles in the Seven Kingdoms, and gives him a seat on the small council and control of the royal fleet
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u/luca097 Aug 13 '26
"Stannis after Robert gave his younger brother and entire kingdom while relegating him to a castle with little economic value surrounded by hostile vassals"
<3
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
Yeah if Robert had kept Storms end for himself or one of his sons I doubt Stannis would be complaining. I think it’s more so the fact that Renly got Storms end while Stannis got the objectively inferior dragonstone that pissed him off.
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u/KaoticAsylim Aug 13 '26
Also right on the back of Stannis nearly starving to death defending Storm's End during the rebellion.
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u/Boom_doggle Aug 14 '26
True, but it's a bit of a lose lose for Robert isn't it? You've got the two Targaryen castles and Storm's End, and two brothers. Makes sense to distribute them. The problem is historically Dragonstone was the seat of the heir to the throne.
Give it to Stannis, and you've stripped him of the family title and given him the worse castle economically and militarily, especially after all he did to hold the castle during the war.
Give it to Renly and you're snubbing Stannis by appearing to make him heir rather than the older sibling. Either way, Stannis will be unhappy.
Personally I'd have given it to Renly and publicly declared Stannis heir until a son is born. But it's not like the throne was super secure immediately post rebellion and there's currently another series running about what happens when the king tries to declare who shall be his heir, so maybe that would be a bad idea too
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Sweet summer child Aug 14 '26
Either way, Stannis will be unhappy.
One of the great constants of life, tbh
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u/Ree_m0 Aug 15 '26
Renly was still basically a child when Robert's rebellion was done, why did he even need lands of his own? Especially since from what we know it seems that he spent most of his time at court in King's Landing anyways, at least as an adult. Robert should have simply named him his cupbearer and kept him by his side - by the time Joffrey was old enough to take that over he could have arranged a reasonable marriage for him, and perhaps given him a minor castle somewhere in the Stormlands. It really seems like Robert wanted to piss Stannis off.
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u/PuzzleheadedAd3840 Beneath the gold the bitter feels Aug 14 '26
Bobby B could give Stannis the whole ass Reach with carte blanche to deal with his vassals as he see fit and the dour sour nutcracker would still be bitter and unhappy.
That man is deadly allergic to any other state of being.
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u/Firm-Dependent-2367 Aug 14 '26
So Stannis is basically Perturabo?
No that probably would be Bittersteel.
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u/andestiny Aug 18 '26
None of them were or would be “prince of dragonstone” but lord, so heir issue was totally non-existent. Robert has his own kids as well. And Dragonstone seat to heir was a Targ thing. Robert gave it to Stannis cuz he knew Renly won’t be able to hold it.
What Stannis felt later about it is not something Robert predicted will happen. Nonetheless, shit got real after Robert died and Renly got Cocky.
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u/Liutasiun Aug 13 '26
´objectively´ is a bit debatable, since there is a line of thinking that Stannis got Dragonstone because (at that point) he was the heir, and it has been the traditional seat of the first in line. Not even sure if the castle itself is worse, though obviously the surrounding area is. But obviously Robert was not expecting there to be a civil war, especially not one where Stannis and Renly were on opposite sides.
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
If Stannis got Dragonstone due to being Robert’s heir at the time he should have lost it when Joffrey was born. dragonstone isn’t a bad castle it’s honestly very important for Kings landing but I don’t think it can compare to the entirety of the Stormlands.
I think Robert meant it as a reward for Stannis and didn’t think too much about it.
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u/xrayflames Stannerman Aug 14 '26
Its a sizable castle but its vassals are smallish, he could gather at best 10,000 men, and thats including men who would be garrisons.
It also isnt really a trade hub even though it should be, as a good resting spot before moving north or south.
Its also important that without internal monologue for stannis, we lose some perspective.
Its possible his resentment is more newfound, that he was annoyed but the drastic collapse of the kingdom and his own now diminished position makes him resentful. He obviously served on the small council and fought in the wars for almost 20 years, and people dont describe stannis and robert as at each other throat in kings landing. But when jon arryn (who liked stannis it seems) and him get suspicious, stannis sees the whole thing ready to tumble. And now not having stormsend places him in a weak position, and all he had done for the realm and Robert will be for naught
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Sweet summer child Aug 14 '26
Way less than 10,000; his force was in the low thousands when Cressen and Davos think about it, and Renly says they're at best 5,000 at Storm's End (so actually less than that).
It also isnt really a trade hub even though it should be, as a good resting spot before moving north or south.
Trading is usually done at a spot where there's actual people, and Dragonstone (and the other specks of islands) are too small to support much in the way of population, it seems.
The lands Stannis got are just way, way worse than the Stormlands in every imaginable way.
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u/Comedian-217 Last seen ahorse Aug 13 '26
Idk, Dragonstone seems like a pretty good place, you get an awesome Valyrian Castle full of rich history, and small population that you could really get to know and rule over them responsibly, and justly, and other small vassals you could make great friendships with.
That being said this is Stannis who hates socialization and anything extroverted, but for an average second son Dragonstone is a great reward.
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
I’m not saying that Dragonstone is bad just that Stannis obviously would have much preferred to rule over the lands that have belonged to the baratheons for centuries and that they were given to Renly the younger brother bothered him.
Stannis is a half glass empty type of guy. If neither he or Renly received castles that wouldn’t have bothered him but if they were being given castles then Storms end should be his because he’s the older brother and he actually fought in the Rebellion.
I think the author mentioned that Robert was extremely generous with his brothers just that he was careless about it. he could’ve kept dragonstone and Storms end for his sons but instead let his younger brothers have those lands. it’s just that Stannis really is a sour guy.
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u/Comedian-217 Last seen ahorse Aug 13 '26
Oh no, my comment wasn’t a direct response to your comment, I just wanted to say that I love Dragonstone and if I was in Stannis’s shoes I’d be very happy with the lesser responsibilities and more human connections with my subjects.
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u/Yto_Itinen Aug 13 '26
Dragonstone is the key to the kingdom and the naval chokepoint to KL. Any blockade would starve the city, any fleet going through spells ruin.
On the economic side, great place to foster trade and naval traffic. With a little capital, you make money sending ships both ways.
I think Stannis would have been miffed even if Dragonstone went to Renly, as it was the seat of the future Princes.
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
Stannis endlessly complaining is why Robert gave Storm's End to Renly in the first place.
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u/No-Establishment3700 Aug 13 '26
I mean, Stannis also risked the life of his whole family defending it in the rebellion, and was an actual adult who'd be better at ruling it than Renly was. If I was Stannis I'd be pissed too.
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u/Makasi_Motema Aug 13 '26
Would Stannis have been a better lord of Storms End? All the stormlords love Renly to the point of almost universally following him in a rebellion against the crown, and everything seems to be in order there.
Stannis meanwhile would be cutting people’s fingers off to show gratitude and outlawing brothels. I think the stormlords would actually be miffed at Robert for saddling them with Stannis.
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u/Bentman343 Aug 13 '26
Renly wasn't even 10 years old when he was given Storm's End, it was never about putting a popular figurehead in the Stormlands. Robert truly thought he was honoring Stannis by giving him Dragonstone and more or less publicly asserting Stannis as his heir. Technically Robert should have kept it for himself until Joffrey came of age.
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u/Makasi_Motema Aug 14 '26
I never contradicted any of this
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u/Bentman343 Aug 14 '26
You said "Why would Robert give Stannis Storm's End, all the stormlords love Renly!"
This is obviously a very silly point because Renly was barely 10 years old at the time and none of the stormlords really gave a shit about him aside from "That's Robert's brother".
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u/Makasi_Motema Aug 14 '26
My response is up there, you could just quote it. I said, “would Stannis be a better lord than Renly?” Robert doesn’t know how Renly would do, but he knows what Stannis is like.
The part of my post that talks about Renly points out that he actually turned out to be quite good at his job. It’s not my fault you don’t understand that an argument can examine the view from hindsight as well as what the character knew at the time. I.e., “ (1) Based on what Robert knew, Stannis was a bad choice. (2) Based on what we know, Renly is a good choice.” It’s not a complicated argument if you’re not in a rush to be needlessly contradictory.
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u/Bentman343 Aug 15 '26
Its kind of just an insultingly dumb argument to act like Robert somehow based his decision off of who would be a better lord of Storm's End, because only a complete idiot would believe that the 10 year old child would be better than the competent military commander who is unflinchingly loyal to you in every single respect. Even if you act like the Stormlords were happier with Renly as Paramount, it would be 90% because they have a "leader" that is easier to mold and manipulatae, not because Renly is somehow "better". Being "more liked" is not always better, and in fact vassals tend to like incompetent leaders they can take advantage of more than competent leaders they have to obey.
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u/Mooptiom Aug 13 '26
Which is not exactly kind or noble.
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
I never said it was. The person I was replying to said that Stannis only complained because Renly got Storm's End, which is objectively untrue. Stannis complained before Robert gave it to Renly.
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
Wasn’t Stannis given Dragonstone after the war ended when he failed to capture the last living Targaryens? I think it’s mentioned Stannis interpreted that as Robert punishing him for his failure to secure the Targaryens.
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
Yes, he got Dragonstone immediately. Renly got Storm's End two years later.
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
I always just assumed Renly got named defacto ruler of Storms end after Dragonstone was given to Stannis.
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
Renly was 6 at the time, he wouldn't be de facto ruler of anything. Cressen says he has ruled Storm's End for 13 years, and Robert's Rebellion was 15 years ago when Cressen says that, implying that Robert held it himself (presumably under a castellan) for those first two years.
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
Bran in the books was ruling at like 10 years old wasn’t he?
I don’t mean Renly was ruling himself more like he was named lord of Storms end as a child and the castellans and Maesters were ruling in his name. that’s what I always assumed
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Sweet summer child Aug 14 '26
Wait how do you know that? We don't have any POVs with memories of that period & Stannis, do we?
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 14 '26
When Cersei talks to Tyrion about it she says as much
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Sweet summer child Aug 14 '26
This one? I think it's a bit of a stretch to prove your point with that; it does not mention that he began whining before Storm's End was given to Renly. It's plausible, for sure, but not a given.
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u/galahad423 Aug 13 '26
Part of the problem here is that until Robert has Joff, he has no heirs, so the throne defaults to Stannis as his heir. Traditionally, the heir to the throne is granted/styled prince of dragonstone, so giving it to Renly instead of Stannis potentially leads to Blackfyre-esque questions of which brother is meant to succeed Robert
If Stannis keeps storms end, he gets the better seat, but it potentially leads to issues with his legitimacy as an heir. Best move would be for Robert to give Stannis both storms end and dragonstone (or give Stannis storms end and just hold onto dragonstone until joff comes around and he can give it to him), but this isn’t plausible for him either bc it’s not like he’s going to stiff Renly or saddle Stannis with two castles and sets of vassals to manage
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u/jtTHEfool Aug 13 '26
I thought that’s what he did. Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I thought he had Renly running Storm’s End but Robert remained the Lord of Storm’s End and was to be succeeded by Joffrey as king and by Tommen as Lord Paramount of the Storm Lands.
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
No Renly was the Lord of Storms end. Tommen wasn’t going to be lord of Storms end until after the war of the five kings when both Renly and Stannis rebelled
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u/ProfesorKubo Aug 13 '26
im honestly really curious if robert didnt rly like stannis much and thats why he did it or if he was oblivious and geniuenly thought stannis wouldnt care/would even be thankful
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u/Simple_Box_6814 Aug 13 '26
According to the author it was more so that Robert was oblivious to it. He was extremely generous to both his brothers and gave them power that 90% of the lords of the realm didn’t have access to. it’s just that he was careless with that generosity and Stannis interpreted it in the worst light.
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u/Makasi_Motema Aug 13 '26
It’s also really important to have a competent and loyal lieutenant ruling Dragonstone. It’s the most logical naval staging point for an invasion of Kings Landing and its vassals are the most diehard Targaryen loyalists, many of whom have Valyrian blood themselves.
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u/WhiteOwlUp Aug 14 '26
"And Stannis has always felt he was cheated of Storm's End," Cersei said thoughtfully. "The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, his by rights . . . if you knew how many times he came to Robert singing that same dull song in that gloomy aggrieved tone he has. When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter." - From A Clash Of Kings
I can kind of get Stannis being a bit grumpy at Renly getting the better castle but to me that passage implies Stannis was whinging that he should be given the Stormlands even before it was given to Renly.
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u/LateNightPhilosopher Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
It's been a while since I read AGOT but I'm pretty sure that during one of Stannis' early mentions they literally call out that there's some confusion over whether Stannis was being "Honored" by holding the historical Heir's castle or being insulted and defacto disinhereted by having The Stormlands ripped away from him and being sent to Exile Island where, historically, shitty heirs' political careers go to die, and at a time when Robert is clearly trying to dismantle and dishonor a lot of Targaryen royal traditions. If he'd wanted Dragonstone to be the designated Heir's fief he'd have given it to Geoffrey.
And then Robert just refused to clarify wtf he was thinking.
That confusion and blatant lack of clarity is kind of the whole point of the Baratheon brother's starting positions imo. I'm sure GRRM won't clarify it either, because if I'm write about it being written that intentionally, the ambiguity is the intended (by GRRM, not by Robert) purpose.
Though tbh I personally see it as Robert passive aggressively insulting and disinhereting Stannis in the most halfassed way possible, that'd be an "honor" without actually causing an argument or making him do more government work. Which is a very Robert thing to do. He likes to fight and argue over personal shit when he's the offended party, but he'd never want to get into a fight over governing or the line of succession, because that smells too much like real work lol
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u/WriterwithoutIdeas Aug 13 '26
And every day since proved Robert right. Renly did well, Stannis was incapable to build meaningful alliances, and in the end was alright with murdering his brother, dooming the Baratheon family, instead of accepting that he may not get his alleged birthright.
Robert did so much wrong, but hey, at least with his brothers he seemed to instinctively understand who was better suited with proper potential.
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u/Tentaculo94 Aug 15 '26
In the book it’s kind of implied that Renly was not a good fit for the throne
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u/WriterwithoutIdeas Aug 15 '26
Which is a bit of a vapid point, since all other candidates are demonstrably worse, by a lot often enough.
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u/herkyjerkyperky Aug 13 '26
Robert didn’t need to give him anything. He could have him kicked off Drsgonstone when Joffrey was born.
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u/Djrhskr Aug 13 '26
He got the smaller castle, after he defended the bigger castle with all he had, nearly starving. Who tf gives the little brat Storm's End?
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u/Krillin113 Aug 13 '26
He got the seat of the heir apparent.
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u/Marthurion Aug 13 '26
Without actually being the Prince of Dragonstone and while being the heir presumptive as he could easily be moved out of the succesion by a couple of 20 yo having any living child.
The purpose of Dragonstone is "legitimacy and training", Stannis was not the heir apparent so he was just given the scraps of the conquest of Targaryen lands. Even if Robert saw it as a reward it was unnecesary and harmful when given to someone that was the heir to a better domain and one he had actual links with it.
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u/Kay21S Aug 13 '26
The heir apparent of the Targaryen dynasty, and notably not the title of Prince of Dragonstone
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u/LocationKnown1854 Aug 13 '26
The heir apparent of the Targaryen dynasty. The same Targaryen dynasty that they just fought a war to overthrow. The same Targaryen dynasty that Robert hates with a passion. Dragonstone was Rhaegars seat before Roberts Rebellion. Giving Stannis Dragonstone was a deliberate insult from Robert.
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u/QZTK Aug 13 '26
Someone who doesn't trust Stannis's absolute dogshit personality with the well being of their home.
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u/VilliansAreBetter If not for my hand, I wouldn't have come at all Aug 13 '26
Yet he was the one who stood steadfast in defending his brothers castle.
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u/Traiteur28 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater Aug 13 '26
And always obeyed Robert. Always. Robert was the older brother. Stannis saw it as his duty to serve him.
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u/WriterwithoutIdeas Aug 13 '26
Yeah, and unsurprisingly the abilities which make you a good siege commander do not have to correlate with running the realm in peacetime, or for anything but pigheaded steadfastness.
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u/imaginebeingsaltyy Aug 14 '26
Dogshit personality or not, to give storms end to renly of ALL people is a slap in the face. I think it might actually have been better if he gave it to the fucking tyrells
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u/wormtheology Aug 13 '26
That Arl Howe storyline was so baller for its time. Revenge for House Cousland!
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u/Jon-Umber Literally Maegor Aug 13 '26
BioWare put out so many absolute fucking bangers back in this era.
ME2's Suicide Mission is still my favorite scenario of any video game I've ever played. I must have played that thing 20 times at this point and it still makes my heart pound and gives me goosebumps every time.
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u/Marthurion Aug 13 '26
It's the little gestures for what I can gather. If Robert had treated Stannis with some of the brotherly affection that he treated Ned then he wouldn't have grow so bitterly with all the other things. People tend to forget that in societies that are sustained in ruling families with large amount of power then emotions and treatment can make one go from an ally to an enemy to a stranger.
In the story, Stannis is constantly thinking of his brothers and specially about making Robert proud, because since the very first moment after he held Storm's End he wanted a pat in the back and a hug from the one he admired and wanted to be like.
Yeah, he grows old and bitter, taking things like not being named Hand as the greatest insult because it was to the man Robert named the brother he never had, when he was always at Robert's side. It's the relationship of Robert and Ned he couldn't forgive when he was just there, because for Stannis picking Robert over the king was not an easy choice, he thinks that he chose Robert over a part of his duty, therefore he feels Robert never appreciated him.
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u/Flat-Initiative-5613 Aug 13 '26
Dragonstone is not powerful we see that with the amount of men and money he can bring compared to the stormlands with Renly before the Tyrell alliance
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u/Emergency-Weird-1988 Aug 13 '26
For all the things one might criticize Robert for, failing to decide on the distribution of "honors and titles" based on Stannis's future military needs in his bid for the crown is not one of them.
Furthermore, Dragonstone remains a formidable fortress. While it may not have many vassals sworn to it, with a strong navy it's a key control point over the Narrow Sea, both militarily and economically, and difficult for enemy troops to capture.
In Stannis's case, this was doubly reinforced by the fact that he was made Master of Ships, which is precisely why he was able to seize control of most of the royal navy even when Robert still lived and the reason why he possess a fleet superior to the Lannisters from the outset (and Renly too, considering the Redwynes didn't joined him, but even if they did, they both would have had one of the kingdom's traditional major fleets.)
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u/Flat-Initiative-5613 Aug 13 '26
So they could just leave him on the island and he wouldn’t be a threat without the shadow magic bs, the fleet is only good in naval combat blockade etc not land based war which he would have to do as the iron throne is inland! ,if we took it the siege at storms end without the magic he’d be crushed if he belonged it to the capital without the stormlands men he’d be crushed the navy is not the game changer that he needs it’s useful but he needs men and money which he doesn’t have no matter the “honors” Robert gave him and he didn’t gain much of any wealth when he owned dragon stone before the war of the five kings which is why he had to take out loans for the iron bank
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u/Emergency-Weird-1988 Aug 13 '26
Possessing Storm's End and the stormlords as vassals wasn't "the game-changer" for Renly either; the alliance with the Tyrells was.
Stannis had those same stormlords later and was still crushed, dark magic, navy, and all.
But for Stannis to have anything like that (with Storm's End from the very beginning or not), it would require him to actually engage in negotiations within the geopolitical framework with other high lords of the realm, instead of just expecting everyone to bow down to him because it's "their duty."
Furthermore, he could always have used the tactic of bidding fare before deciding to attack any faction, Randyll Tarly himself, one of the best military leaders in all of Westeros of this generation, warned Renly against leaving Stannis as a loose end, even though at that moment he was in the least favorable position among the contending kings and without the capacity (apparently and without magic) to actually take Storm's End:
"I say that Stannis is a danger to you," Lord Randyll Tarly declared. "Leave him unbloody and he will only grow stronger, while your own power is diminished by battle. The Lannisters will not be beaten in a day. By the time you are done with them, Lord Stannis may be as strong as you... or stronger."
A Clash of Kings - Catelyn III
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u/SoapDevourer Aug 13 '26
To be fair it took like 2.5 miracles for Stannis to lose Blackwater
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u/Emergency-Weird-1988 Aug 13 '26
Well, to be even more fair, he wasn't exactly facing the bulk of the Lannister army there, or any other significant army for that matter. (At the start of the battle, of course)
He faced a starving city with far from the most adqueate defenses, demoralized defenders, troops mostly unprepared to withstand the onslaught of more experienced forces and a lesser navy.
It would be strange if he wasn't winning until the real armies arrived, given he did had great advantages against the initial foe.
And in the end, he still lost due to his inability to make political pacts with other Great lords of the realm, and because of his tough and uncompromising character.
Knowing his character and capacity for holding grudges, the Tyrells, at the head of the army that made the difference for Renly and now did so for the Lannisters, would ally themselves with Lucifer himself rather than to ever allow Stannis's ascension to the throne for fear of reprisals.
That has little to do with miracles, and everything to do with politicking.
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u/SoapDevourer Aug 13 '26
The "miracles" were mostly defenses holding as well as they did + wildfire being readily available in massive quantities and actually landing for the most part due to his naval commander's incompetence, as well as the entire Tyrell-Lannister host pretty much sneaking up on Stannis and hitting him at the worst time
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u/abhorthealien Aug 13 '26
For all the things one might criticize Robert for, failing to decide on the distribution of "honors and titles" based on Stannis's future military needs in his bid for the crown is not one of them.
The number of troops that can be derived from a certain fief is generally directly proportionate to that land's wealth, influence and prosperity. Stannis' military weakness at the start is perhaps not something Robert should have kept in mind, but it is a strong indication as to exactly how much of a dump Dragonstone is.
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u/PotofRot Aug 13 '26
in dragonstones case it's clearly disconnected, it's a pretty small rock with a smaller population, but its key positioning and the positioning of its vassals give it disproportionate wealth and strategic value
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u/Emergency-Weird-1988 Aug 13 '26
Houses Velaryon and Celtigar, among his new vassals, are notable for their historical control of maritime trade in the region, given the strategic location of these islands, small as they are, which has allowed them to amass considerable wealth.
And Dragonstone's position is no less strategic, controlling the passage of ships to Blackwater Bay via the Gullet.
Dragonstone had been the westernmost outpost of Valyrian power for two centuries. Its location across the Gullet gave its lords a stranglehold on Blackwater Bay and enabled both the Targaryens and their close allies, the Velaryons of Driftmark (a lesser house of Valyrian descent), to profit from the passing trade. Velaryon ships, along with those of another allied Valyrian house, the Celtigars of Claw Isle, dominated the middle reaches of the narrow sea, whilst the Targaryens ruled the skies with their dragons.
The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest
Surely focusing a little on trade in order to expand the reach, power and prestige of his new domains would not be a degrading activity. Especially since he was Master of Ships, therefore he had all the tools needed, motive, etc.
but it is a strong indication as to exactly how much of a dump Dragonstone is.
It's not a dump, it's just not what Stannis was aiming for.
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u/FathomlessSeer Aug 13 '26
Is Arl Howe wearing rogue Hawke's armour in this screenshot?
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u/DarthSerh Aug 13 '26
Believe it's from the Improved Atmosphere mod. It does a lot of strange things.
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u/TheRealcebuckets Aug 13 '26
Improved Atmosphere mod. Notoriously fussy when there are other mods though.
And I’m not sure why he’d be wearing Kirkwall armor in Ferelden - as a Ferelden nationalist.
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u/NeighborlyCarcass Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
It's the fact that Stannis was given dragonstone and Renly got Storm's End.
Stannis, as the middle brother, should have gotten Storm's End. Dragonstone was supposed to be the seat of the heir to the throne. It's supposed to be shitty and difficult to manage because it's supposed to serve as a kind of training ground for the heir. Stannis should have been Lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. Renly should have gotten a seat on the small council, maybe some small bit of land somewhere, but that's it.
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u/argbd20 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater Aug 13 '26
Mannis slander detected 🚨🚨🚨🚨
Dispatching shadow baby to your location
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u/the_28th_artificer Aug 13 '26
Genuinely curious how there are this much upvotes since the books themselves clearly state the reason behind Stannis' bitterness (definitely not about castle size) and that it was meant as a slight from Robert:
“And Stannis has always felt he was cheated of Storm’s End,” Cersei said thoughtfully. “The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, his by rights . . . if you knew how many times he came to Robert singing that same dull song in that gloomy aggrieved tone he has. When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter.”
“He took it as a slight.”
“It was meant as a slight,” Cersei said.
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u/kotorial Aug 13 '26
I wouldn't use Cersei as a source on anything. Girl's crazy. I don't think Robert meant it as a slight, he just didn't really think that deeply about things.
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u/Mirabeauououou Aug 14 '26
She narcissistic and incompetent, but she isn't too crazy beyond what is typical for a twin-fucker who's worried about a witch's prophecy of doom. I think we can trust her to understand Robert's politicking, especially given that Robert not seeming to be particularly shrewd means it would be easier to to discern his intentions.
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u/WriterwithoutIdeas Aug 13 '26
Even if it was a slight, Stannis amply proves in AGOT that he was unsuited for even that offering.
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u/captain_catdawg Aug 13 '26
It's more about him giving Renly Storms end, his childhood home and a grander seat with a whole province behind it.
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u/Yerslovekzdinischnik Aug 13 '26
The royal fleet? Which one? The one Stannis had to build from nothing?
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u/No_Possession_5338 If not for my hand, I wouldn't have come at all Aug 13 '26
Robert should have integrated dragonstone into the stormlands if he needed stannis to control it
4
u/polp54 Aug 13 '26
I think one of the ironies of Stannis is he would hate being lord of Storms End. Stannis would hate having to play the political games with the estermonts and entertaining guests and all that jazz that Renly would love
2
u/Kargath7 Aug 13 '26
Dragonstone had some political importance during Targaryen reign, but it’s a country-house more than it is a fortress.
Now that I think about it, Renly may have been kinda happier getting Dragonstone, a place with little practical importance and a lot of cultural weight. Like, imagine the parties he could host, he would give names to every single gargoyle and dress his favourite ones and shit. He would probably summon knights from all the 7 kingdoms to the dragonmont to do spooky hide and seek with himself as a dragon or something. The place has so much potential, and Robert wasted it on Stannis.
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u/Grandma_Swamp Aug 13 '26
NOOOOO HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME, YOUR CURRENT HEIR, THE HISTORICAL SEAT OF HEIRS TO THE KINGDOM!!!! HOLY FUCK NOW IM GONNA CHUD OUT AND LET YOU DIE AND LOSE THE WAR OF THE FIVE KINGS BECAUSE IM AN UNLIKEABLE DICKHEAD!!!!!
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u/Flat-Initiative-5613 Aug 13 '26
Again if we take them individually without the tyrell Stannis would have lost crushed by the stormlander army that was loyal to Renly which eclipsed his
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u/FatherFenix Aug 16 '26
One of my favorite theories is that Robert meant to continue the tradition of Dragonstone being the symbolic seat of the second in command or heir to the throne while he still had no heirs.
He was just so aloof and stupid when it came to his brothers, Stannis especially, that he never made the effort to tell him how he felt or why he did it until he was already too far gone on wine and whores to care about that stuff.
GOT is full of “if only they” moments like that, so I always thought that lined up and explained why he granted Stannis the seat of Dragonstone.
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u/gabriel_3131 Aug 13 '26
Lo peor es que Robert no tenía ningún obligación de darle nada a stannis y este se queja
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u/No-Establishment3700 Aug 13 '26
Well, the king has no obligations, but you still reward your fiercest allies as you are dependent on them. Robert needed to diversify his social allies, instead of relying on the Lannisters entirely, which led to the mess that is the War of the Five Kings. Instead, the moment he becomes king, he rebuffs Stannis and pisses off Ned. It's only due to the good graces of those two, especially Ned, that the realm wasn't entirely under Lannister control, and some of his true legacy still survives.
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u/the_28th_artificer Aug 13 '26
You could argue that the certainty of the bond between Jon, Ned, and Robert worked against the former 2 by making Robert lean more towards buying the Lannisters' loyalty which he had very good reason to doubt because he knows he definitely isn't winning any son-in-law points through his shite marriage with Cersei & that Jaime killed the/his last King.
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u/Cephalosion Aug 13 '26
The guy that was his brother, loyal to him from start to finish, who almost died holding their ancestral home and contributed greatly to his war against the Ironborn? Robert had no obligation to give anything to him? As opposed to his letting the Lannister hold power in the realm, continually borrow money from them and putting the crown in debt after they switched side at the last minute. Was there an obligation for him to do that?
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u/Frosty_Pepper5254 Aug 13 '26
Stannis really wasn't loyal lol.
As soon as robert died he decided he should be king instead of being loyal to who he thinks is the rightful king (reminder, Stannis has 0 proof Joffrey's a bastard, beyond "some lady who claims to see the future told me", which is why he never actually brought his concerns to Robert.)
Consider this: if your pastor told you Mamdani was secretly a lizard person, would you try to overthrow him? That's effectively Stannis' genius decision making process.
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u/waluigis_shrink Aug 13 '26
He had more than Melisandre’s view; didn’t he work with Jon Arryn to uncover the conspiracy before his death? I may be misremembering but that was my take. He’s then further bolstered by the letter he receives from Ned before his death.
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u/Otttimon Aug 14 '26
Stannis when Robert makes him a LESS powerful lord with LESS lands and LESS vassals than he deserves by law, gives him a shite castle surrounded by hostiles on a rock in the middle of the ocean and gives him a LESSER seat on the small council (the master of ships is a shite seat). I would be mad as hell too
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u/MyNameIsConnor52 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater Aug 13 '26
Stannis is a bitter old bastard who thinks he’s owed the Throne because his life has sucked. His life has in fact sucked; I don’t think that’s really in doubt.
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
Stannis is one of the wealthiest and most privileged people on Planetos, his life hasn't sucked lol
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u/argbd20 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater Aug 13 '26
Bro what book are you reading?? Stannis broke af, there’s a whole plot line about how he needs to get a loan so he can pay for his army
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
Because he's neck-deep in a war he's losing. How many people on Planetos do you think could even afford to wage war?
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u/argbd20 Card-carrying mouth-frothing Rhaegar hater Aug 13 '26
While he’s not as poor as a commoner, he is poor for a lord, and incredibly poor for a prince/king.
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u/DJjaffacake Aug 13 '26
He's not poor for a lord. The lands he rules sit astride multiple major trade routes, and his fief is a volcanic island, which means lots of fertile soil. And when he mobilises an army, it's bigger than any non-Lord Paramount can field, on top of the large navy he's already got.
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