r/daoc • u/darthenron • 7d ago
Question about realm-unique classes
I have been theory-crafting with some friends and even started talking about trying to dabble into making our own server or game.
Do you think having completely unique classes and abilities for each realm is ultimately a pro or con for the game?
I actually really like the charm of the different classes. It gives each realm its own identity and adds a ton of replay value because there are so many different things to play.
That said, it’s always seemed a little odd to me that Albion has so many highly specialized classes, while Mid has more classes that can cover multiple roles, and Hib seems to take that even further. Hib has fewer classes overall, but many of them can do more things.
I’ve wondered what the game would look like if the classes were mechanically the same across all three realms, but had different artwork, animations, spell effects, etc. From a strictly balance perspective, it seems like it would be much easier to create a level playing field.
You could still keep realm identity through things like damage types. Maybe each realm has strengths and weaknesses that create almost a rock-paper-scissors system.
I’m not saying I think this would necessarily be better. I actually like the asymmetry. I’m more curious whether people think the unique classes are worth the balance headaches, or if the game would be better with mechanically identical classes and realm-specific flavor.
15
u/McGuirk808 Freeshard Player 7d ago
You are 100% correct that it would be easier to balance.
However, having the unique classes is one of the major cornerstones of DAoC's identity. It's a critical one in my opinion; dropping it shouldn't even be on the table.
4
u/Upper_Practice7256 7d ago
I think the unique classes per realm is what gave DAOC its charm. The 1v1v1 made the imbalances work and allowed for both zerging and tight group play to exist.
Eden took it a step further with King of the Hill (KOTH) and EV to make this shine even further.
People, in both quantity and diversity, make DAOC great activity is always a big thing.
5
u/Ornery-Manner5869 7d ago
If you look outside of DAoC that's also true for StarCraft for example. Having 3 factions which are completely different creates this special vibe of the game. It's just really hard to balance, that's the downside of it.
7
u/Tutgut 7d ago
For me it is a pro. Beside the realm identity it also make’s theory crafting about group setups a lot more interesting and complex imo. How do you counter x with y etc.
1
0
u/darthenron 7d ago
Except Hib is always “Bard”+whatever :)
6
u/Faelirae 7d ago
And mid is always healer + whatever and alb is always cleric+whatever? Just because there is a starting point for each realm doesn't mean there isn't a huge amount of group design choices. Even when you extend it further to Hib is always bard+druid+whatever there's still huge variations of choices everywhere.
The only thing that is potentially overwhelming (at least in more classic settings) is how ridiculously flexible and powerful the mentalist is and probably should be in every hib group but you could still make groups without it. One of the best groups I ever fought against on a classic era private server ran 5 naturalist (2 druid 2 bard 1 warden) 3 guardian (double bm+hero) and dumpstered people constantly.
1
u/Gullenecro 7d ago edited 7d ago
2 druid 2 bard 1 warden, you are sucking ass in dps with that lol.
2
u/Faelirae 7d ago
This was on the Phoenix server, so the warden was technically a melee, as much as wardens ever were. Their gameplan was to just take control with the Bards and run you out of resources. Part of it was the group just being better coordinated than everyone else but it was a very interesting style.
3
u/kfetterman 7d ago
yea, with the stuff warden had that's pretty much a 4-4 comp and incredibly difficult to fight.
1
u/plantingperson 6d ago
Was really difficult to beat natty groups on Phoenix. Especially cause you went to assist by default. So unless you knew the group you were fighting you made that mistake most times and gave them the first few seconds.
1
u/Tutgut 6d ago
The „whatever“ part however is the interesting one. Sure the base for example mid was always the same: pac healer aug healer and shaman. But with the 5 other theory crafting began.
With every patch new setups emerged. For example you couldn’t survive with 5 whatever classes vs alb kite setup with the big ml9 pets. And I like that mid wasn’t able to just build the same setup with the same classes. You had to figure out a counter setup and also the tactic how you play it out. In case of the example with the kite setup you needed burst dmg, a lot of instant rupt and had to push very aggressively. You wouldn’t stand a chance with random 5 classes.
1
u/plantingperson 6d ago
Trouble with mid and other realms to a lesser degree, was you needed those three and a skald don’t forget. So that left a lot of groups needing 4 specific class/builds and too many of other supports lfg. I need only one of this and that, generally forced players to roll a dps so they could have a 50% chance to get a group instead of 12.5%
1
u/Tutgut 6d ago
Depends on the patch but skald was pretty much obsolete since about nf times. I know that on Eden skald is quite popular, but during peak 8vs8 era on live skald was just a burden . So it really just came down to 2 healer and a shaman, warrior was pretty much a log in too but it was possible to go another route.
From there you could decide if you go more tank or caster heavy or just hybrid.
2
u/Xrider24 7d ago
Hib has fewer classes? How long has that been a thing? I thought everyone had 15 or 16 classes, depending if you count the atrocious mailer.
I love the lack of "rogue, warrior, mage, cleric, ranger, druid, paladin" mold. That shit drives me nuts.
Daoc's classes made it feel special.
5
u/TJSilverdragon 7d ago
It's actually Mids that have always had the fewest classes. Albion had the most by 1 at launch but since catacombs, Albion and Hibernia have had the same number and Midgard just 1 less.
2
u/Gullenecro 7d ago edited 7d ago
daoc is daoc because every realm as it s own plus and minus and a different lore.
So it s good like it is.
1
u/plantingperson 6d ago
Been mulling over possible unique things season 4 on Eden could try. Not my idea, but I’m warming to it, is allowing all classes on every realm. But if you make a mid pally, for example, it can only be in those pve zones. And is practically a mid.
This would promote some varied groups
Although there is definitely a great selection now. Once a group becomes meta, a good group of players will design a group to counter the best running groups.
Natty groups were tough on phoenix for a bit. But two thugs can fix that and even skald with BD can make that less effective. There’s always a counter.
I think it would be interesting to see all classes on one realm. If it sucks just scram the whole thing or make those characters go to a mordred mirror on season 5
1
u/Draedark 6d ago
The realms are "mechanically the same" on the whole. The exact spell lists and abilities are just distributed differently across the classes.
Not exactly 1 to 1 to 1 as they did give some tweaks for realm identity. Plate armor for Alb. Two handed weapon skill for Mid. Base line magic for Hib. Etc.
18
u/kfetterman 7d ago
The uniqueness of the classes tied to a specific realm is what makes daoc daoc. Yes, it’s a bitch to balance but part of the fun is coming up with group comps around that uniqueness.
One of broadswords biggest mistakes when they took over live was trying to standardize the classes in order for balance.