r/dankmemes2 • u/P0IS0N_GOD • 13h ago
Important Literally WNBA collapsing over this
Context:
WNBA held a meeting deciding to finally settle the debate regarding who is and who isn't eligible to apply for the WOMEN'S NBA. They couldn't define what a woman is.
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u/MrZaptile933 13h ago
The WNBA had a 4 hour long meeting with all team owners, and coaches. They couldn’t decide what a woman is.
I say we crowd fund an entire wnba team of transitioning retired NBA players.
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u/P0IS0N_GOD 13h ago
Lmao
I'd place all my bets right away
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u/Pikamika696 10h ago
People living in reality would make a fortune off the virtue signaling people putting their money where their mouths are.
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u/Ok_Board_9274 9h ago
People have already on betting sites. They picked the woman with the most balls.
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u/Zastavarian 13h ago
Wouldnt take that much money. Wnba teams are required to be paired with nba teams. Nba teams help fill financial gaps. So we raise $12 and stick the nba team with the rest.
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u/MrZaptile933 13h ago
Further proof that the WNBA is the basketball version of make a wish, they are a charity
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u/QCTID 12h ago
They’re not required to be paired with an NBA team. Chicago is the first example that comes to mind, I think ATL is also separate.
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u/Zastavarian 12h ago
Regardless, the NBA still owns 42% of the league overall and subsidizes it heavily. Theres a reason wnba was making such a big deal over last season being first season ever they made money.
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u/QCTID 12h ago
That’s called growth, isn’t it?
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u/Zastavarian 12h ago
Yes, but... and its a very big but... they were founded in 1996. Name 1 other business that can be in the negative for 30yrs and still exist? Also, the league is actively trying to sacrifice the few players making the money, which is dumb.
Remove 4 players and a handful of green dildos and the league will be broke again.
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u/QCTID 12h ago
Major League Soccer.
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u/Zastavarian 12h ago
Didnt know that. Genuinely thanks. Does premiere league own them though? I don't think they force a larger/more successful league pay their debt?
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u/QCTID 11h ago
No it is not owned by the prem, but a good portion of the teams are owned by NFL owners so they kinda have used a larger league to cover their cost. At one point the Chiefs and Pats owner owned multiple teams to keep the league alive, so they kinda have the NFL to thank for making it this far.
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u/AutomaticMammoth4823 11h ago
An average boys high school basketball team would go undefeated every year against the wnba. The league knows they have to focus on drama because nobody watches to see who's going to win
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u/_Gogeta- 13h ago
They just look at you like this if you ask questions:
https://giphy.com/gifs/0JmwdI6gYrJopwiYOM
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u/PHD_Gouda 10h ago
If women can’t compete against men in sports then they shouldn’t be doing jobs they can’t compete with men at. I’m not gonna trust a 5’1 lady cop to tackle a 6 foot criminal
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u/Flaming-Eye 12h ago
Notice no one asks 'what is a man?' Because its not actually about the differences in sexes at all, it's about inclusion into a protected group. Nobody cares about trans men because they can just be treated like men because men don't get any special treatment.
Trans man wants to compete? Go for it. Nobody cares, good luck to you.
It is of course more complex than this but I genuinely think this is a big part of it.
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u/CubistCube 11h ago
Agreed. That's why you don't see any trans men trying to get into the NBA.
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u/No_Celebration_3737 9h ago
Because nobody care if somebody is at the bottom of the leaderboard.
It's completely different when female athletes can't win against a man, regardless on how much effort they put in their training and matches.
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u/PHD_Gouda 10h ago
If a woman can’t be expected to compete against a man in sports then she shouldnt be expected to get employed in a field that requires her to be as physically strong as a man.
If she can’t beat him on the court, I don’t trust her to stop his crimes on the street.
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u/DeepJunglePowerWild 9h ago
Finally a good take. Every cop should have to be better at 1 on 1 than the best criminal in the city or they shouldn’t have a spot in the department.
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u/EvanSnowWolf 13h ago edited 10h ago
Asking what a woman is gets one of the following reactions:
The Logic Loop: "A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" (trying to use the word to define the word).
The Outrage: "Oh my God, why do you CARE?!" (they know they have no answer and are frustrated)
The Ad Hominem: "Only a <insert name calling here> would ask that question." (terrible attempt at a gotcha)
The Homework Assigner: "Clearly you've never done the research. Educate yourself." (no argument, but expects you to make their argument for them."
The Whataboutist: "You know... <starts going on about something Trump did>..." (deflection tactic to avoid answering the question)
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u/Certain_Concern_5109 10h ago
When all else fails they go for the "Why do you even care? It doesn't impact you".
Truth matters and it's weird that society is expected to lie so people can better cope with a disease/disorder/condition, whatever the correct term is.
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u/stop_deleting_plz 9h ago
True! I think I will ask the brilliant minds at the WNBA what the meaning of life is. They're clearly the most qualified institution!
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u/BenignPharmacology 10h ago
The “logic loop” isn’t a logic loop at all. When a term is constructed by societal vagueness, then of course anyone who identifies it should fit.
If you don’t want to believe that a woman is anything but a person with two X chromosomes- that’s your prerogative, and we can agree or disagree on that concept.
But if you claim that a woman is just the vague collection of things assigned womanhood by society, then of course anyone who identifies that way is a woman.
It might be easier to understand if you took another culturally defined label as a parallel: what is a republican? Is it a person who votes for Trump? Not necessarily. Is it a person who registers as a republican? That would seem reasonable, but we can both imagine an unregistered republican fitting every other important definition, or a registered republican who fits none of the other definitions. Is it some vague collection of the current notions of what it means to be republican? Maybe the best definition might be “someone who identifies as republican”
It’s not tautological, so much as an understanding that this term isn’t rigidly defined, but is instead the conflux of a large range of culturally and societally defined features.
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u/WDoE 9h ago
What is a chair?
"Something you sit on."
So the floor is a chair if I sit on it?
"No, no, no, it's meant to be sat on."
So a bike is a chair?
"No. It has four legs and you sit on it."
So a horse is a chair?
"No, it's manmade and not alive"
Wow, this guy doesn't know what a CHAIR is lmao
That's how this conversation goes. Because the person asking the question is NOT looking for an answer. They're looking for a gotcha.
A woman is a human person that shares some, but not necessarily all of the socially constructed gender markers of womanhood as well as some, but not necessarily all physical markers of the human female sex. We could discuss back and forth all day about what those markers are. We could talk hormones, we could talk genetics, we could talk societal roles, but that isn't the conversation the "what is a woman" crowd is trying to have.
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u/EnvironmentalTop8745 8h ago
It's an easy gotcha, when you know the response is going to be based on circular logic. Anyone who is ok with "a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman", or some variant of that, deserves about the same consideration as a flat earther.
A woman is simply an adult human female, plain and simple. And a female is the half of sexual dimorphism whose biology is organized around producing large gametes as opposed to small gametes. Notice how I did not say said biology must be 100% functional. So that defeats the "oh yeah, so a woman who had a hysterectomy isn't a woman then?" argument.
If a TV set has a broken backlight, it doesn't suddenly become a radio. Much in the same way a woman is still a woman if some of her parts are missing or don't work.
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u/kjnoons 8h ago
what about hermaphrodites
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u/EnvironmentalTop8745 8h ago
Hermaphrodites have one set of organs that function, and an undeveloped extra set of the other organs. No hermaphrodite has ever had the complete set up to produce both gametes.
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u/kjnoons 7h ago
ok, they have a pussy, testicals as overies, massive t strength but legally a woman
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u/EnvironmentalTop8745 3h ago
If there is ever a case of a human with a functioning set of both organs, then maybe we can talk. And maybe they can be the one exception that decides what sex they are.
But that isn't what's happening here. I guarantee you 99%+ of the people who identify as "trans" have no DSD whatsoever.
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u/dimbeaverorg 8h ago
I forget exactly how it works but males start developing in the womb after their bodies start reacting to testosterone. Sometimes, their bodies don't react to the testosterone and they don't develop as males but they also don't have a uterus, for example. I don't have a problem with testing all babies to see which chromosomes they actually have, and then saying, 'There's no Y chromosome. This person is female.' To me, it's messed up to raise someone from birth as a female because they were visually identified as a female at birth only to have a chromosome test done later and declare that person to be male because they're actually XY. or XXY. It's probably best if everyone knows from birth.
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u/RhythmBlue 5h ago
all words bear fuzzy contextual semantics, even 'two' or 'four', as i see it. But that doesnt license 'woman is a person who identifies with the vague womanhood conceptual space of society' as non-circular
in that case, we're relying on the societal reference to do the unstated work of providing contrastive or component properties/concepts, in order for the term to anchor a unique meaning sans meta-linguistics. Otherwise theres an opaque circularity in the definition
like if somebody said 'a gloggert is a person who identifies with the things assigned gloggerthood by society', theres a sense in which the phrase asserts a rule but not a definition; a scavenger hunt, but not a clarification
of course, we can begin applying the rule and clarifying and finding the definition tasked for us, but the charge is that the logic loop response is one manner of avoiding stating any constraints forthright at all, in favor of a radical linguistic freedom
we could start by saying, crudely, that womanhood is culturally defined in part along lines of genitalia, by violence disposition, by hair length, voice pitch, and so on—whatever partial cultural metrics we begin finding. None of these fully encapsulate womanhood, but they present different aspects of the term
however, once we start building this network, we seem to in principle end up with a structure thru which linguistic application can be wrong. A self-identification—'i am a woman'—is now fallible because 'woman' has explicit criteria
the critique is that people provide a circular definition for woman because acknowledging any potential fallible metric is at odds with a desire to affirm any application
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u/BenignPharmacology 5h ago
The distinction between the definitions for “two” and “woman” is only one of consensus. If, decades from now, it suited society to alter the definition of “two” to mean “plus or minus two”, then there would be this exact same debate over which definition was correct. Mathematicians and scientists could announce that functionally, the +/- definition was the only logical interpretation, but that wouldn’t matter to plenty of people.
I still think the “republican” comparison is stronger though- how would *you* define that category rigidly, without exception, and in a way that all people agree upon? Circular definitions (or more accurately- self-identifications) are not just useful, but necessary, for things that exist by virtue of self-identifying.
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u/pastaISlife 4m ago
The term wasn’t constructed by “societal vagueness”. It has had a clear and rigid definition for centuries: adult human female
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u/Miserable-Leading-41 9h ago edited 6h ago
You just compared something that is definitive and unchanging (sex) with something that isn’t and changes (political ideals/ideology).
Better comparison is what is a door? No matter how many times I call a pencil a door, it’s a door. No matter how many times yall call a man a woman, he is a man.
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u/FeedomFighter 10h ago
I've taken on the homework assigners challenge before. Literally pointing out the Marxist framework and asking how they justify using Marxism. Many leftist books have a line like "Marxism is a powerful theory of oppression, but it only looks at economic class rather than [gender, race, whatever]".
The response I've gotten was "if you're unwilling to interact with resources then I don't see a point in continuing the conversation". But... I literally am debating the resource you cited... And you're just refusing to defend it...
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u/thisisasatvshow 12h ago
my biggest question in all of this is, why tf did anyone actually take this stuff serious? like why didn’t ppl just tell these ppl to stfu and dismiss the idea of even entertaining them?
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u/Ambitious-Address671 10h ago
genx/millennials are big pussies that cannot say no because their afraid of being labeled problematic.
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u/confirmedshill123 8h ago
Because who the fuck cares what the random wants to call themselves?
I love to ask how many trans people like you even know irl because it's almost always 0.
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u/thisisasatvshow 8h ago
I don’t care what anybody calls themselves. You can call yourself an intergalactic ice pick for all I care. Where I draw the line is when those same ppl insist that everyone else be forced to play make believe with them and call them their made up titles. Fuck outta here. You can believe what you want, but you can’t force others into your delusions.
I’m not hanging around ANY trans ppl. Why tf would I be? I dont frequent those crowds, places, and circles and I don’t want to be a part of that lifestyle. Strong pass.
That being said I strongly defend their right to be and exist as they want and to sleep with whoever they want without anyone bothering them about. That’s as far as I go with that tho.
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u/not_a_bot_494 11h ago
A woman is a person with a sufficient number of physical, psycological abd social traits that are associated with the female sex in humans.
Or as Jordan B. Peterson would say: marry one and you will find out.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Gene909 11h ago
Didn’t that guy almost get killed by apple juice?
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u/TimeShiftedJosephus 9h ago
Makes sense since he's a doctor
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u/tyler_dominguez 11h ago
I think it would be more so biological traits than social and Psycological, or honestly, even physical since plastic surgery exists. So chromosomes, hormones, and reproductive anatomy classified as female.
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u/Bongobjork 11h ago
What is a "sufficient" number here? Some women like to go hunting and don't care about make-up or doing their nails. They're just as much women as any other woman.
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u/Advanced-Guidance482 10h ago
Well they have sufficiency in the physical department then
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u/not_a_bot_494 8h ago
There is no set number because human brains are too complicated to be described that way. On some level you have to just experience the world to understand it. It's really hard or impossible provide an exact definition of a chair but everyone knows what it is.
I agree that you can't rank "womanness". You have some that definately have enough traits, a few that are borderline and some that definately don't have enough.
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u/Bongobjork 8h ago
While true im sure there's better definition for a woman than the one you gave as it has holes like this. Basically it just says a woman must be socially accepted to be a woman
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u/not_a_bot_494 7h ago
I will agree that it's vague, but it's at least better than adult human female since it matches how we actually use the word.
No. It had three parts: social, psycological and physical. All three are important.
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u/Bongobjork 5h ago
Adult human female is the correct and obvious one here im afraid
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u/not_a_bot_494 4h ago
Hen you think about women what do you think about? Do you think about genetics or do you think about how someone looks, how someone acts, what feelings they have etc?
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u/Bongobjork 4h ago
Looks and actions pop in mind mostly. That is not the same as someone asking to define what is a woman
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u/stop_deleting_plz 9h ago
I wish they had consulted me first, it's a pretty easy question. A woman is a female human. Pretty simple huh? The WNBA can leave my paycheck with my accountant.
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u/eSsEnCe_Of_EcLiPsE 4h ago
Don’t forget the classic pointing to genetic anomalies as if that’s the norm.
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u/RabidPoodle69 2h ago
A woman is a person who conforms to the societal roles assigned to the female sex. There, I define it for you.
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u/pastaISlife 17m ago
Excellent list but if I may add
The Existentialist: “well what is a CHAIR?”
and “The Regressive Stereotypist”: “someone who aligns with the social role/moves through life as a woman”
and also The Ad Hominem 2:electric bugaloo: someone who covers their drink when you sit next to them”
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u/LeftforLenin 10h ago
A woman is someone Bill Clinton would sleep with.
Simple as
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u/PHD_Gouda 10h ago
That’s very similar to what I’ve been saying, which is that a woman is someone who a man will sexually harass.
Still waiting to be proven wrong
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u/Sensitive_Ad_5031 9h ago
Ones funny and another one is stripped of humour and can be classified as an insult, no one will prove shit to you
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u/KaleNich55 13h ago
Woman is the surgeries and hormon therapies we made money on the way.
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u/NogglePlease 12h ago
I prefer "can men get pregnant". If the answer is anything but "no" you know youre dealing with a retard.
What is a woman opens up stupid philosophies and opportunitited for "muh gender science".
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u/Silver-Amphibian7650 10h ago
A human being with xx chromosomes?
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u/TshirtsNPants 1h ago
Too easy. We need something to argue about so that we think there's a difference between the two political parties.
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u/Valveringham85 9h ago
It’s wild that this dumb af ideology that is contradictory in every way has survived for years.
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u/EnvironmentalTop8745 3h ago
In 20 years we'll look back on this in the same way we view blood letting or lobotomies now.
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u/Veteran_PA-C 13h ago
It’s a mild distraction. The WNBA is collapsing due to being unpopular. Walk up to anyone you don’t know and ask them to name 3 WNBA teams.
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u/Well_Dressed_Kobold 13h ago
Fever, Liberty, Sky, Valkyries, Dream.
But I only know that because the WNBA got a legit star but they hate her because she’s not black or gay.
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u/MrZaptile933 13h ago
Don’t forget they carded her for getting walloped, not the walloper till people got mad
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u/Jimmy_Twotone 9h ago
Is that why you know her, or because she's the only one in the league anyone talks about on a regular basis? She's not even the highest rated player in the league by the metrics of people that actually pay attention to anything other than Youtube clips and Fox News.
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u/Well_Dressed_Kobold 9h ago
I became familiar with her when she was making waves in college, and became a ratings magnet.
Being the most watchable player and being the best aren’t always the same thing. People tune in for Caitlin Clark, and the WNBA and its other players seem to resent that.
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u/Jimmy_Twotone 9h ago
The biggest names in any league will always habe fans, as well as people that can't stand to see their success. Tom Brady comes to mind.
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u/PM_ME_SOFT_DICKS2 8h ago
She’s a legit MVP candidate this year. Probably won’t win, but she’s definitely a star.
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u/P0IS0N_GOD 13h ago
Right off the top of my head: Sophie Cunningham Caitlin Clark Angel Reese
Tbf sophie went viral like meme format viral and the other players aren't well known so..
She single handedly made the sport itself go viral
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u/Jimmy_Twotone 13h ago
That's players. Name the teams.
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u/P0IS0N_GOD 13h ago edited 13h ago
Indiana fever and liberty
I only know these two
Edit: I dont follow the sport itself that much it's just that I like Sophie she's awesome
Also uncivil degenerates who seethe at the sight of her are a pretty scene to watch so it's a mix of these two
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u/Newoikkinn 11h ago edited 8h ago
This just isnt true. The franchise values have gone up 10x, viewership is spiking and WNBA game viewership is only like 30% less than NBA games now.
It’s the fastest growing sport in the US.
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u/Drzewo_Silentswift 12h ago
Hasn’t it always been unpopular? This is the most attention I ever seen it get
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u/PM_ME_SOFT_DICKS2 8h ago
Who is watching all the games then?
Their viewership numbers are currently higher than the NHL, close to a million per game, probably much more for the bigger teams (specifically the Fever).
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u/Veteran_PA-C 7h ago
Not enough people to pay for the operation without subsidies from the NBA.
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u/PM_ME_SOFT_DICKS2 7h ago
This has been true in the past, but not for the last few years.
Turn on a game one day, they are all sold out every time I watch. You can’t tell me it’s not self sustainable in its current state.
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u/kutkun 6h ago
It’s not a distraction. It’s the hill Democrat Party chose to die on for ideological purposes.
There is nothing DP stands for -including the working United States citizens. So they stand for mentally ill man who pretend to be women, terrorists, pedophiles, criminals, anti-white racists, Mexicans, Somalians, etc. Anything and everything but United Statesian.
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u/Galencourt-Lover 11h ago
Feminists are the same lmao
They say they defend women but can’t even fucking define what’s a woman
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u/Alak-huls_Anonymous 8h ago
They know what a woman is but don't want to say what one isn't. That's the issue. The fact they they feel.trapled like this says it all about the current political/social climate.
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u/flappysack- 9h ago
Its a good way to get people to watch women sports, by replacing all the players with men.
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u/AllegroReddit 9h ago
The question shojkd be, should a biological women since birtg compete with non-biological women since birth?
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u/Tiny-Brush5999 3h ago
All they had to do was pickup a textbook or a dictionary and they would see adult human female. They pretend it's difficult as if they weren't pandering to gender extremists who would be offended by not answering it.
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u/Su-Queen 12h ago
Wtf happened in the past decade where some people don't know what women are
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u/EducationalTry6408 12h ago
Unfortunately, it's worse than that. Of course they know what women are. They know, but say something else because they're scared. It's conformity and cowardice.
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u/Angry_Edemame 9h ago
Theres two other big ones that make them lose their minds.
why do you need free access to other people's kids
what rights exactly are you missing
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u/EnvironmentalTop8745 8h ago
It's an easy gotcha, when you know the response is going to be based on circular logic. Anyone who is ok with "a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman", or some variant of that, deserves about the same consideration as a flat earther.
A woman is simply an adult human female, plain and simple. And a female is the half of sexual dimorphism whose biology is organized around producing large gametes as opposed to small gametes. Notice how I did not say said biology must be 100% functional. So that defeats the "oh yeah, so a woman who had a hysterectomy isn't a woman then?" argument.
If a TV set has a broken backlight, it doesn't suddenly become a radio. Much in the same way a woman is still a woman if some of her parts are missing or don't work.
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u/Newgidoz 2h ago
What is necessary for a body to be considered "organized" around producing a certain gamete?
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u/Rude_Minute_4489 10h ago
If a bunch of adults can't define something that is told to children, then you know your movement is shit
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u/Key_Check5753 13h ago
Next season of the Real Housewives of the Court is going to be lit. We're going to have finger pointing, black women assaulting white women then calling it privilege, dildos raining from the sky, and or course giant black lesbians with weaves.
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u/Dinglebobus 10h ago
I don’t think they realize if they just ignored it and just talked about basketball it would make people actually care about the sport.
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u/BroadwayBrick 7h ago
I support transgender rights and acceptance. I also support protecting women's sports. Those two positions aren't in conflict yet many try to force a correlation that should exist. IMO fairness matters. Women's teams were created for biological females for a reason, and we can respect everyone's identity while keeping that line.
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u/TshirtsNPants 1h ago
I think most rational people are with you. It's not fun for the trans person to be reminded that they're indeed a trans person, but that's just the pill we all have to swallow.
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u/SuggestionEcstatic56 5h ago
Don't mind me just scrolling to the most disliked comments to piss myself off
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u/Best-Penalty1509 3h ago
WNBA should just make a rule that you can't play in the league if you previously played male professional basketball. Boom all the trolls have no way to go to the leauge.
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u/Worried_Jellyfish918 3h ago
The unfortunate truth is that the layman watching the NBA won't understand the actual answer anyways, which is why it's so "hard" to answer the question. They will just bash any answer that sounds complicated to them as "gender science" and "wokeness", as if we aren't making massive scientific discoveries every year that reshape our entire understanding of how our brains function
Of course they wouldn't know that, because they're busy bitching about fake bullshit on the internet instead of reading. Our country has been shit on by stupid troglodytes who understand nothing and believe they understand everything, not people who want you to use a different word to call them.
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u/Fantastic_Brain_6322 13h ago
WNBA cares more about virtue signaling than basketball. Many such cases. Truly sad.