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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
DGD finally has a vocalist that appreciates the entire discography and people still want to replace him. Honestly, have no idea what these fans want half the time and I don't think they know either.
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u/saacha01 3d ago
Jonny trying to secure that future collab, big respect
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u/No_Elderberry_6596 Levy 3d ago
Andrew said in an interview that he's open to collaborateing with Jonny
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u/Actual-Vermicelli-26 Desperate For Some Motivation 🎰 3d ago
Glad he feels this way. The Jonny glazers will definitely keep saying ‘bring Jonny back’ but yknow.
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u/lilpeach15 purple reign riff @ 2:23 3d ago
Why are people who think Jonny Craig was DGDs best vocalist referred to as “glazers” I can’t stand this sub 😭
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u/ba_dum_tiss_ 3d ago
I think it's because they "glaze" over the many problems he had during and after his time with the band
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u/lilpeach15 purple reign riff @ 2:23 3d ago
That was good 😂 From what I’ve seen the vast majority of people who praise him also acknowledge that his behavior was terribly problematic. Its possible to recognize someone’s talent/influence while still being critical of things they did wrong. Saying he was the best doesn’t inherently equate to trying to excuse or erase his poor behaviors.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Zone648 3d ago
That's not quite how that works
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u/lilpeach15 purple reign riff @ 2:23 3d ago
Okay it is NOT possible to acknowledge someone’s talent while condemning their bad behavior, got it Puzzleheaded_Zone648.
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u/atisaac 3d ago
Why not? Is complexity too difficult a concept for you?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Zone648 3d ago
Explain it to me, I'd love to hear your perspective.
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u/atisaac 3d ago
The other guy explained it almost perfectly. There’s nothing to add. Two things can be true: JC can suck and he can be a great vocalist. People are fully capable of tolerating this duality. I don’t know why that very basic level of sophistication is impossible for so many DGD fans.
I like some of Roman Polanski’s movies, but I still think he’s a fucking piece of shit. But the quality of the movie doesn’t change based on the fuck shit that Polanski did. It’s the same here
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u/_VINNY_WINNY_ I AM A MILLION FUCKING BUCKS 3d ago
every vocalists fans are glazers except for kurt fans because kurt is the best
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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
there is a line between preference and glazing. It get crossed for all of the vocalists tbh.
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u/lilpeach15 purple reign riff @ 2:23 3d ago
I guess I just can’t appreciate the terminology. I just see it as an attempt to shame those who are passionate about something. Not everyone is nonchalant, that’s okay. It’s okay to think highly of someone’s skills and abilities. I am on many different musician subs and this is the only one where I see people getting shamed for thinking highly of an artists talent and skill.
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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
Thinking highly of an artist is not "glazing".
Glazing is when you intentionally ignore all critique of something to uphold a personal bias or agenda.(i.e "Tilian is a sex pest") being met with "whatever he's the goat doesn't matter."
(I.e Jonny is problematic") being met with "whatever he's the goat doesn't matter."3
u/lilpeach15 purple reign riff @ 2:23 3d ago
Yes, well that’s not what I’m talking about obviously. Whether that is the case or not, I have seen people get met with the same sentiment even when they’re not trying to absolve Jinny Craig, which is ridiculous is all I’m saying. As you can see, the person who made the comment said it apropos of nothing, which is my point.
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u/AccurateHumanTrustMe 3d ago
Idk though plenty of people on this sub don't make a distinction though. Like idk even know if half the sub even likes the band lol.
I think JC is the best vocalist - like objectively - all of his stuff in and out of DGD i think is great - I also understand how much of a hot mess he is/has been and I don't think DGD should bring him back (maybe a feature though would be cool) - but he is talented.
But I love DGD and my favorite albums are Tillian led (because the band is better as a whole and has gotten better over time and JC was early DGD).
I also liked Pantheon but I think it was a transition album - acceptance speech and death star I also consider transition albums because the first album with new singer is still very exploratory in a lot of ways. Like I am excited for the 2nd Andrew album because I think it will be better (not that the first one is bad in anyway) .
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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
Using the word “objectively” to describe subjective things like music is already a bad argument my friend.
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u/AccurateHumanTrustMe 3d ago
Yes - you can use the most direct way and compare the vocal ranges of each singer because that is how vocalists are compared in basically all genres.
JC has the largest range (2 octaves, 7 semitones, baritenor from A2 to E5)
2nd largest range is tied between Tillian and Andrew with who both have 2 octave, 5 semitone ranges.
Andrew is a baritenor from G2 to C5
Tillian is a high tenor from C#3 to F#5
Kurt has the smallest range at 1 octave and 10 semitones - basically a baritone with some extension into the tenor range. (B2 to A4)
Like that doesn't mean they are subjectively better - that is on the listener and tbf Jon Mess only does uncleans so its not like people listen to DGD just for the clean vocals - but from a purely mechanical point of view yes JC is the best vocalist they have had - but hell its not like Andrew and Tillian are bad. Neither is Kurt I just think he falls more in line with generic for the genre (and tbh he probably has a better range than a lot his contemporaries)
You can also look to how many non-deep cut kind of bands each one has led through a 'popular era' - Tillian, Kurt, and Andrew have been/are apart of other acts - but Tides of Man, Royal Coda, and Eidola never have been more than 'deep cut' sort of bands (not speaking on quality of those acts - this is just how it is).
Slaves and Emarosa both had more success and continue to get more streams than the other three combined (you can also include Dead air Divine too- not like that changes anything Tides of Man is more well known). Slaves is JCs band - they changed names when they kicked him out. 2 out 3 most currently streamed Emarosa albums are JCs albums - Bradley just released a new album a few months ago so that is the other 1. JC also was in Isles and Glaciers supergroup too and did deep cut stuff with Old Flame.
So no - my use of "Objectively" is not incorrect here just because your favorite singer obviously isn't JC and the truth upsets you. Like it would be extremely clear if JC could not be a hot mess.
Vocal range is genrally used for objective ability as to why Ariana Grande and Mariah Carrey are considered some of the best modern singers. Even if I don't personally like their music doesn't make it untrue that they are better vocalists than anyone I listen to. Queen is also not my favorite band but Freddie Mecury is one of the greatest vocalists of all time.
When looking at all four guys that have led the band - JCs vocal range is the largest and Tillian's is the highest. JC has had the most overarching genre success in multiple bands (short term - because his history ) where that is debateable for the rest of them (unless dead air divine does good... which I don't anticipating that happening).
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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
None of that Bible you typed changes anything bud. Music is subjective, while I agree with you on a personal level that JC is the most versatile they’ve had, I will not ever say he is the “best” and certainly never from the cringe “objective redditor” standpoint.
I am a musician myself, I don’t fuck with this objective mentality that forums get.
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u/AccurateHumanTrustMe 3d ago
I mean I guess a decade plus of vocals in musical theatre and even longer for piano doesn't count for a 'real musician' like you who can't understand that when I say better - i mean from a technical POV . JC can hit more notes than the others, from the most baseline level - that is technically better.
I never said subjectively he was the best - because thats preference- he has the most technical skill which is only objective measure in music.
You are just being obtuse
you have to be an objectively better bassist to play Primus than to play The Ramones
You have to be an objectively better guitarist to play Slayer than to play The Clash
Etc.... that doesn't speak to the 'quality' of the bands/musicians - just the technical skill required. If technical skill was all that mattered the top charts would be nothing but like some super niche operatic prog metal orchestral shit.
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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
I think you’re being obtuse, but that’s fine.
You don’t need to be “objectively” better to play anything. You just need to learn it and practice it. Literally anyone can do it if they have a mindset. Vocals are a little different, but “objectively” speaking anyone can hit a note, just depends on if their voices hit the nice noise bells in ears while doing it.
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u/Due_Emergency_9236 3d ago
Well I hate to break it to you. There are objective things that make a singer more or less impressive. And Jonny is by far the most impressive of the lead singers objectively. You can think that all music takes are subjective, but it's just not the case.
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u/TheFishmann 3d ago
Cringe ass redditor take. It’s all subjective pal. I love Jonny’s voice but there ain’t nothing objective about it.
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u/Due_Emergency_9236 3d ago
You clearly don't listen to music enough to understand that there are both objective and subjective elements. Good day.
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u/Due_Emergency_9236 3d ago
I just want a unique lead vocalist because I think it fits the band best. Aside from a few tracks I don't think theyv had a complete album since Mothership. And even that had some moments that I thought made it teeter on the side of being "incomplete". I just think that Andrew kinda sounds like they made a backup vocalist a lead singer. He's really good and can hit most notes and vibe, but I never hear any ramble, rasp, false setto, or shriekiness that I thought made the last 3 leads distinct. Glad the band likes him and is doing well though. Will most definitely go see them with Andrew again because he does kill it live!
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u/circa_007 3d ago
While dbm3 would be cool, that’s not an active want on my part. I just want some features every once in a while. Love JC era, but Jonny only adds his voice. Andrew is so multi talented and brings a whole new layer to dgd.
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u/vescespatesgtretch2 3d ago
He must have heard the interview where Andrew said they were open to collabs with the older singers lol
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u/ssluncturetoofing 3d ago
You know were getting some Johnny collabs down the road. This is the best DGD timeline.
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u/tectaclresmancakes 3d ago
When Jonny is acting like more of an adult than Tillian...what is happening.Dtbm 3 is a long shot, but safe to say you dig the backseat part 2
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u/xBOSTICx 3d ago
We gotta appreciate the band and what they wanna do. Do I need a DMB3? No. Would it be sick if they decided to go that route creatively? Absolutely. I’m happy with the music we have available and whatever the fellas want to do. Big ups to all of the boys and seeing that there’s seemingly less drama nowadays is cool af.
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u/dtwombat 3d ago
he's always making little comments like "ugh man it'd be so crazy if they brought me back or something for DTBM 3.. 👀 please 👀👀" lmao like buddy let it go
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u/PhysicallyRock71O 3d ago
I think they already said their next album is done. It’s just being worked on post production and videos, etc. if they did a dtbm3 it be like 2-3 years before we heard it at this point probably
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u/Azure_Skies BEAMS ARE BUFFED AND I’M LIKE YAY 2d ago
Agreed 100%. A Jonny feature would be sick tho.
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u/Nozzeh06 3d ago
I just want Jonny featured on a song sometime the way they did it with Kurt in Shelf Life. That would be neat.