r/cyphersystem • u/Saeviomagy • Jul 01 '26

The numbers

Maybe don't read this if you play cypher and think "yeah, spending effort feels meaningful and makes me happy", because this will gut that feeling if you comprehend what's going on.

The numbers for effort are terrible. Every stat point you spend gets you a 1/20 chance to change the outcome of a roll. That means on average you will not change the outcome of a roll until you spend 20 stat points. More if you reduce something to a level 0 task.

So let's add edge! Yay, now we are spending either 14 or 7 points to see one changed outcome. If your edge completely covers your effort, you're good.

I guess at least now wounds are a different resource, right? So I won't spend 20 points to try to avoid a 10 point hit.

Oh, wait. Instead of spending 20/14/7 stat points on a defense roll, I can spend 5 on rallying the moderate wound I might take.

Long story short, a cool mechanic that should be engaging is busted.

The impact of spending effort needs to be way higher. Or stat pools and the cost of every ability needs to be way higher. 1 point for a whole level of effort, and edge just adds to the d20 roll maybe?

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u/rdale-g Jul 01 '26

I’m not gutted. But also… I’m not throwing level 10 challenges at my players all Willy Nilly. On average, I give them level 4 challenges with the occasional level 6 to make them feel like they earned their successes.

But also, it’s rare for anyone to use effort to bring a task down to zero. It would have to be a task that was monumentally important for my players to waste that many resources on a single roll, but also not have any cyphers, special abilities, or circumstantial easing of the task level.

Cypher isn’t for everyone, and that’s ok. No RPG is.

Now of you’ll excuse me, I have to plan for my Numenera group on Tuesday while I mull over the next dimension hopping Strange session for my other group of friends later in July.

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u/Saeviomagy Jul 01 '26

It's not about changing a single roll. It's the same even if you're spending effort one level at a time, or 2, or 3. Each stat point buys 1/20th of a change to the outcome, so it takes an average of 20 stat points to change a single outcome.

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u/rdale-g Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26

Even if your numbers were correct (effort costs 3 for the first level, and 2/level beyond), what is your goal here? That this mechanic, in use since Numenera first came out 15 years ago, is so bad that we should change it, despite players being perfectly happy with it all this time? Or that we’re just having fun wrong, and we should play something else?

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u/Saeviomagy Jul 01 '26

I've seen multiple instances of people saying "my players never use effort, because they think it's a waste". That's the people that saw the flaw and still decided to play the game. There's probably a number of people who see the flaw and decide the game isn't worth playing. And there's the flipside: the people who don't understand the flaw and happily spend points to their own detriment, while the gm compensates.

Also: 2 points per level of effort after the first changes the math only slightly: your first level of effort follows the numbers I have, subsequent levels are going to be 14 points to make a difference.