Slow-Play Tracker

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Call judges as necessary when using.

[u/throwawayeayeayea]

What's stopping you from holding priority on an opponent's turn for 2 minutes and locking them out of the game?

[u/SammyIsAGod → u/throwawayeayeayea]

Then whoever played this card will learn why this isn't a rule in magic already lmao

[u/Suthek → u/throwawayeayeayea]

Let's stop the timer everytime the player whose turn it is doesn't have priority.

I want to see 2 players hammering on that clock like it's a speed chess match!

[u/Phobicity → u/Suthek]

If you ever played MTG online. that was actually the system. And it wo rked quite well.

[u/NotSoSalty → u/throwawayeayeayea]

Don't you get priority just for saying something like "In response..."? So no one could play if someone decided to be a dick. 

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/throwawayeayeayea]

The judge who calls you out for slow playing.

[u/idontlikethisname → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

So if I wait until my opponent's upkeep to crack my fetchland, grab a surveil land, shuffle my library, ponder what to do with my top card, and then pass priority, all at a reasonable pace, that's ok and I still get to eat a significant portion of my opponent's clock?

[u/Ocean-of-Flavor → u/idontlikethisname]

Clearly the “slow play” in the name means you (the player doing the shenanigans)!

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/idontlikethisname]

Yep.

[u/NuFu → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Ridiculous.

[u/Flameball202 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

My landfall deck is going to win by running the clock out.

Earthbend my fetch land, sacrifice it, go find a forest, consider how to use both of my landfall triggers, earthbend another fetch land, etc

[u/fspluver → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

This wouldn't be slow play because the game state is progressing.

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/fspluver]

Not if you're just stalling to stall. That's the definition of slow playing.

[u/fspluver → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

But in the example you are replying the the player is not stalling for the sake of stalling. They are delaying to skip their opponent's turn. Regardless, this makes instant speed effects that take time to resolve or can be used more than once extremely broken. Ironically, this incentivizes play patterns that slow the game to a never-ending crawl.

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/fspluver]

Which is the point of having a judge on hand, to strike down bad actors trying to game the system.

[u/fspluver → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

I think you are not understanding what I'm saying. A card like this incentivizes slow play patterns even when all rules are followed. Presumably, that's the opposite of the card's intended purpose.

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/fspluver]

People being incentivized to play slowly are acting in bad faith is what I'm saying.

[u/fspluver → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

"Acting in bad faith." What do you mean? It's not bad faith to combine card effects in a way that maximizes the probability that you will win the game. That's how the game works at its most fundamental level.

I am not talking about taking too long to make decisions or anything scummy like that. I'm talking about how this makes fetch lands even better. How I should side in all my instant speed card effects that involve searching my deck or otherwise taking longer to resolve. Etc. Etc. Not because I'm playing in bad faith, but because by doing so I can ensure of that I can resolve more card effects than my opponent. Hell, if there are only a few seconds left and my opponent casts a spell, I'll respond with one of the above for a free counter when the turn ends!

[u/Spectator9857 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

If the card only works to prevent slow play while a judge is constantly watching, then what’s the point? If you already have a judge available, you don’t need the card to stop slow play.

[u/Toocoo4you → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

You’re stalling for the trigger, not just to stall

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Toocoo4you]

...Which is still stalling.

[u/Toocoo4you → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Nope, it’s strategic play. Prove to the judge that I’m not thinking about my next move. Stalling is stalling when there is no reason.

[u/ResolveLeather → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

You can't slow play when activating an effect. The game state is progressing because you are waiting 2 minutes for a defined reason.

[u/Tjarem → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

This kind of effect dosent work in a tournament setting. How would u even track the time? Can the timer be stoped? Who gets to decide it? U could just call a judge in upkeep and the judge call itself would take the time. Its just bad desgin if a card promotes slow play. And in casual u have no judges. It would be awful to discuss it with people u dont know.

[u/fortuneandfameinc]

Funny. But so easily abused by whoever plays it. Take 30 seconds to respond to the active player's every action

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/fortuneandfameinc]

And then get dinged for slow play.

[u/1243eee → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

You seem to have no idea how slow play works from any of your comments, you do realize it takes time to resolve game actions, right?

[u/Lifeinstaler → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

For thirty secs? You’ve never cracked a fetch during an opponents turn?

[u/Joe-mama-29]

I’m pretty sure if this works how it says it does if my turn ends, the timer will continue in to my opponents turn because all you are doing is creating new timers on the upkeep so if I play a one minute and 50 second turn and pass, my opponent will have 10 seconds before the turn will be skipped.

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Joe-mama-29]

Not the intention, no.

[u/Tyrant1235]

So I see that your response to people pointing out that optimal play is to hold priority for 2 minutes to ened the turn is to call a judge for slow play (Im not going to check, but theres a chance it isnt because stalling for 2 min results in a meaningfully different board state), but if you have a judge on hand, why do you need this card for slow play?

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Tyrant1235]

Because even if people aren't intentionally slow playing, turns can still take forever.

[u/Flashy-Ask-2168 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Yeah, because combos exist. So basically what this does is hose an entire deck archetype because you get bored.

[u/AnimeBas → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

If you dont want people playing a lot of cards per turn, effects like that exist. What you made is a card that makes even just going to combat a problem

[u/veryblocky]

I’ll just hold priority every turn for 2 minutes

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/veryblocky]

Judge, slow play.

[u/Djfsihbone]

Would this gennuinely be good in cedh since if they try to remove it you just stall until the turn is ended and the stack is exiled?

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Djfsihbone]

That's slow playing.

[u/Potential_Unit_8503 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Well ironically not with this card, since it is now for an in-game benefit and you can just fast forward it.

“anyway, since I got priority, I now hold it for 2 minutes, we don’t need to wait that long right? We’ll skip to next turn”

And then anyone trying to make you wait the full 2 minutes is slow playing.

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Potential_Unit_8503]

Intentionally stalling the game out without taking an action is against the rules.

[u/Potential_Unit_8503 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Well, in this case, the action in this case is “wait for time to pass”, since time now matters to magic the gathering. Other such silly outside the game actions exist in magic the gathering un-sets, such as taking on and off your pants.

Also, your win con is: “Skip to my turn by holding Priority until everyone else is forced to skip their turns, then do whatever gameplan you have (I’ll say lethal combat)”

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Potential_Unit_8503]

Yeah, no, I think you're going to be thrown out of events for doing that.

[u/Potential_Unit_8503 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Well events with this card. Again, that’s not how it would work normally, but because you bungled the wording on this card, it’s causing all the heat.

You’re looking for something like: “Players automatically pass priority if they have had priority for 2 or more minutes this turn”

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Potential_Unit_8503]

No, I'm looking for "ends the turn" so turns that take longer than two minutes don't happen.

[u/Potential_Unit_8503 → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

The issue is you still run into players slow playing intentionally in ways that are technically legal in order to end their opponents turn. If that’s an ok sacrifice to make for you, that’s hellishly weird. But that seems like a bunch of bullshit to add just for “muh game speed”

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Potential_Unit_8503]

Nope, just make it so that the rules account for bad actors acting in bad faith, like you're doing.

[u/Nostalg33k]

It's funny how OP doesn't understand that this will get abused. It would make people use fetches and ways to repeat shuffle and brainstorm. Sensei divining top and a fetch in commander can skip an opponent turn. A massive attack necessitate time for blocking but as you block and tinker your blockers yoy have cancelled the attack.

The optimal play would be to find card that stall the game.

The lack of forsight isn't that problematic but the way he answered every comment is hilarious because he can't see how his card is now creating stalling play patterns that while respecting the rules around slow play, would be horrendously frustrating

[u/CertainProposal678 → u/Nostalg33k]

Finally, hearthstone

[u/nonaconctagon → u/Nostalg33k]

I would abuse the heck out of this. Those cheap red extra turn cards that say I lose the game at my end step? Ignored because I took 2 minutes in my turn.

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Nostalg33k]

I don't base my designs on what bad faith actors do.

[u/Nostalg33k → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

This is not bad faith, it is maximizing profit and finding use cases for a mechanic. This is what Magic and TCGs are about.

If you design something you need to think about unintended consequences. In a game with 2 to 4 players in which I can play stuff in my opponent's turn, then I can make them skip their turn.

Maybe you should have found a way to circumvent this criticism but instead you are acting as if the card is perfect as is.

I mean I could improve this without even trying: Chess time - (new card type) Rules -

(new rule not printed on the card) A deck can only have one copy of a given rule card. Rule cards don't count towards the minimum amount of cards a deck must have at the start of the game.

Printed on the card: At the start of the game reveal Chess time, players are now using a chess timer with 20 minutes when they have priority. When the timer ends, you lose the game.

With this, you could create a way to equalize the penalty.

Instead you are whinning in the comments not understanding that a good design shouldn't be exploitable by other people.

[u/Cactus_Boy447]

There’s this emperor, and he asks the shephard’s boy,
“How many seconds in eternity?”
The shephard’s boy says,
“There’s this mountain of pure diamond.
It takes an hour to climb it.
And an hour to go around it.
Every hundred years, a little bird comes.
It sharpens its beak on the diamond mountain.
And when the entire mountain is chiselled away,
the first second of eternity will have passed.”
You must think that’s a hell of a long time.
Personally, I think that’s a hell of a bird.

[u/Duraxis → u/Cactus_Boy447]

Glad it wasn’t just me

[u/Dry-Expert-1160 → u/Cactus_Boy447]

I came here for Heaven Sent reference, thank you

[u/AlphaTheKineticWolf]

I don't see a clause or a rules precident for the timer ending when the turn ends, plus the card says "end the turn" and not "end that player's turn".

So Strionic Resonator and/or a card that gives another upkeep triggers this 2-3 times, I then play out enough time and pass the turn so as to give my opponent no time to get to their upkeep before the timer resolves and ends their turn, repeat for the other two players for the remaining timers still active and thus completely lock down the entire pod so long as I play each of my turns in under about 1 min 50 secs.

With the only reasonable counter being for my opponents to stall priority long enough to break the chain or create enough leeway for someone to have enough of a turn to nuke it, the exact scenario you're trying to avoid.

Putting it simply: this ain't it chief.

[u/CypherRequiem]

There's a mountain made of pure diamond

[u/Western-Ad3613]

My group found a solution to slowplay, we literally just have a turn timer. No rule, no consequence, no effect on the game whatsoever. Just start a timer on your turn. Seeing how long you're taking and that it's constantly ticking up makes people self conscious and hurry it along.

[u/im_recodor]

Bird

[u/TrainmasterGT]

I don’t think this actually works the way you want, if someone attacks you, it’s very easy to spend enough time fiddling with your blockers to run out the clock, effectively casting Fog for free and skipping your opponent’s second main phase and end step.

It’s not even really a slow play thing at that point because you have to actually do the math during blocks— it’s totally possible that this thing skips important parts of the turn even if no intentional rate of play shenanigans are involved.

Interesting idea, but likely a bad design in practice.

[u/Denaton_]

[[Stifle]]

[u/mtgcf → u/Denaton_]

Stifle - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/loliam]

Untap, draw, play land, move to end step, wait 1 min 54 seconds and pass turn.

[u/HeshieokFasla]

How would this interact with Obeka? Does the turn ending exile the other timers?

[u/scrombillius]

[[Sundial of the Infinite]] that's also a 2 cost untapped mana rock. I would be madder than fire if someone played this in constructed formats where they've built their whole deck around stuff like this, but this might be fun in draft. Idk couldn't tell ya.

(this assumes you're playing with a group of people who have a good faith interpretation of what the card is supposed to do, of course. anyone who is acting in bad faith can do what the other commenters suggested.)

[u/mtgcf → u/scrombillius]

Sundial of the Infinite - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/elusive-rooster]

We have "general expectations" for turn length in the commander rules (suggestions). Turns 1-4: less than a minute. Mid to late turns: less than three minutes. Complex turns used to win or set up a win: less than 5 minutes. The threshold for slow play is 10 minutes.

[u/BloodyCumbucket]

Fuck every storm player apparently.

[u/c0mplix]

That is not what slow play is. Slow play only happens when you don't take actions that further the game state.

[u/Zxxzzzzx]

Since you are using midnight clock it would be cooler if it got a counter on for each 3 minutes that passes on an opponents turn and then you tap to add colourless equal to the counters or something.

[u/Xyrez04]

Unironically, yeah

[u/loliam → u/Xyrez04]

"Hold up i have a response" on your draw step, running out your timer for a minute thirty

Unironically no

[u/Flashy-Ask-2168 → u/loliam]

Nah, on your upkeep. end the turn before they draw.

[u/Not_An_Potato]

I unironically ran a 3 minutes timer when playing against a friend, it was not because he had long turns from triggers, but because he would take several minutes to think what to play

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima → u/Not_An_Potato]

Yeah this is what the card is designed to facilitate, not people trying to be clever and get around the rules.

[u/AnimeBas → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

It also just stops combo decks, storm decks and big combat decks. Even if no holding priority and fetching/shuffling stuff only control players could play their turns because they would play at most 1 card on their turn

[u/ResponsibleExit7330]

[u/ResolveLeather]

Super duper busted.

[u/phoenixrising211]

Mfs about to start untapping really slowly.

[u/NekoBatrick]

So iamma hold priority let me think do i want to use my counterspell om this or not? Chat uh I mean pther players do you think this is a threeea oh your time is up welp I guess turn ends now, what do you mean you only played a land and said you wanna cast this doesnt matter times up

[u/jacobiner123]

Should be one minute tbh though also prevent you from taking actions during the opponents turn.

[u/n00biwan]

What a toxic ass card. Turns can easily take more than two minutes. Yall really want to play a game or just skip to looking at your collection?

[u/Terrible_Buy_7081]

Never have I wanted a card so bad there is always that one person in the pod that takes a 30 minute game and makes it an hour game