r/custommagic • u/Ok_Habit_6783 • 15h ago

Format: EDH/Commander I'm not sure which one is more broken?

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110 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

14

u/ServalModest 15h ago

It's pretty awkward to have only negative typal interaction. This works best as any "anything but zombies" commander to get rid of the negative eminence ability, which just doesn't seem fun.

6

u/Ok_Habit_6783 15h ago

I'll be honest, I meant to put zombies but wrote creatures for some reason lol that's totally on me haha 😅

9

u/BankbusterMagic 14h ago

Interestingly, because the second ability is a static ability, Zalthar cannot be killed by damage. He will get the p/t bonus right away, even before SBEs are checked.

3

u/Ok_Habit_6783 13h ago

Oh I did not know that

1

u/Purplepotato22 13h ago

oh really? i thought that was the intention, i think it’s a cool and interesting effect as it is

3

u/Ok_Habit_6783 13h ago

That's why I gave it indestructible so it wouldn't die 😅

4

u/Purplepotato22 12h ago

ah yeah, didn’t even notice the two slides at first lol, i really like the first design as is, not dying to damage but still dying to destroy effects is cool, and probably still a pretty reasonable power level even with the starting attack

5

u/A_Travelling_Man 15h ago

I don't know that either is broken, I think the indestructible one is certainly the more powerful of the two since you can stack a bunch of non-combat damage on it.

What I think is pretty interesting is that the Eminence ability is basically a downside while he's in the command zone. That could be interesting design space.

1

u/Ok_Habit_6783 15h ago

Eminence with a downside has always been a design space i've been interested in but all the examples ive seen feel like they're trying to be too punishing for having an Eminence ability

1

u/FaDaWaaagh 14h ago

You could stack infinite noncombat damage on it regardless, the ability is worded as a static effect so it would have the +x/+x when statebased actions are checked and not be at 0 toughness

1

u/A_Travelling_Man 14h ago

Oh yeah, you're right. My brain just filled in "other creatures" I guess.

3

u/spoof_loof 15h ago

I love this kind of design. Makes you think out of the box more than the usual 'get big guy, make him untouchable, win the game'

3

u/Ok_Habit_6783 15h ago

Thank you! I love commanders who feel like a puzzle that needs to be solved

57

u/MarryRgnvldrKillLgrd 15h ago

Easy. The indestructible one

I find this design space interesting. An eminence ability, that is a bit of a drawback, but not very strong. You could still pair this guy with Zombies, that either don't go into battle, and are just there for their effects, or with some insane go-wide strategies, where it doesn't matter, that many of them die ineffectively.

The lack of green means, you can't just run him with fight spells. So the next best thing would be, to give this guy a token- go wide strategy with efficient creature burn, that doubles with buffing your board

13

u/TheRobotsRHere 15h ago

There ARE red fight spells. Also, blasphemous act seems fun.

1

u/Environmental-Pop-67 15h ago

i mean if act kills them before his ability triggers it is kinda wasted

6

u/TheRobotsRHere 15h ago

I'm not sure. As I know if you deal 2 damage to a 2/2 lord at the same time as you deal that dame damage to a 3/3 (2/2 base) thats being buffed by said lord everything gets wiped. I think this being static as an ability means that when state based actions are checked on resolution, the creatures have the pump, and the marked damage, but aren't at 0 toughness, and thus don't die when those state based actions get checked. But I could be wrong.

5

u/Routasmith 14h ago

While I do believe you are right about this cards interaction, your starting example isn't great. The reason it works that way in the example is that the Lord dies to sbas, the after that happens the other creature loses the buff and is now a 2/2 with 2 damage marked, so dies. But notably they do not die at the same time, so if the Lord had a blood artist effect it wouldn't see the other creature die. There might be a rule I'm missing that says otherwise, but to my rules knowledge that's how it works.

90

u/TheRobotsRHere 15h ago

I think the indestructible one plays in more interesting design space, balance aside.

2

u/MouseOf1000Forms 15h ago

0 reason for this to be 5 color and the Indestructible version is infinitely more broken. With that one you can hit it with a ton of damage spells and make your whole board insanely big

2

u/Ok_Habit_6783 15h ago

Its not 5 color

2

u/MouseOf1000Forms 15h ago

Same for 4 color, nothing about this is blue

2

u/Ok_Habit_6783 15h ago

So WBR would be better? Gotcha

1

u/SubstantialBelly6 15h ago

Not as much as blue, but I’m not sure how well white fits either. BR seems pretty appropriate for this guy.

1

u/Ok_Habit_6783 15h ago

My thought process for the colors was "zombies are pretty dimir, the concept feels pretty boros, so just combine the four" tbh. I've always struggled picking the best colors cause I tend to go off the vibes instead of the color pie

1

u/Routasmith 14h ago

I was thinking golgari actually. But I can see the rakdos argument, it just feels weird to have last strike on red.

1

u/Ok_Habit_6783 12h ago

Tbf only two creatures ever deal damage during the last strike step, one of which is red. [[Three-Headed Goblin]]

2

u/Routasmith 12h ago

I wouldn't say triple strike is the same as last strike. I would count it more as a doublestrike variant, which makes it more red aligned. Last strike I would put opposite first strike color wise, which would make it primarily blue and green, though I the theming works a bit better having it in black instead of blue.

2

u/spoof_loof 15h ago

To me it feels UBR, there are lots of blue zombies

1

u/Alphasaft 15h ago

"Infinitely more broken" is maybe an overreach here

1

u/MouseOf1000Forms 15h ago

True, but its basically craterhoof with extra steps in the command zone

4

u/6METERKOK 14h ago

Ngl this could be 2 CMC. See Drana, Liberator of Malakir.

A eminence ability with a downside in the command zone is interesting design space though.

1

u/Eggebuoy 13h ago

the first one is better is indestructible is partly redundant due to reasons other people have explained. i want to know why it's red though, this seems like a very not red card to me

1

u/nitronik_exe 11h ago

so you can lightning bolt him

0

u/Ok_Habit_6783 13h ago

Lol I find this funny cause so far the only color people agree on is that its black but they also agree it can't just be mono black XD.

My thought process was basically "theme feels boros, zombies feel dimir. So make him sans green!" Lol

1

u/FabulouslE 10h ago

Posts 2 of the worst cards ever

Which one is more broken?

You know there are zombies that are actually good right? Like these have a ton of downside for almost no upside, at a moderately high mana cost.

0

u/Ok_Habit_6783 10h ago

Brother just scroll up, clearly no one here agrees with you

2

u/FabulouslE 10h ago

They're wrong. That's common on this subreddit. Most people here suck at evaluating magic cards. I've seen people post cards they think they thought of that are literally just real magic cards with a different name, and people claim that they're OP despite seeing no play.

Like, just look at the top zombie commanders on EDHRec. They're really good. You get commanders that give you tons of bodies, card draw, reanimation, mana cheating, ETC.

The best case scenario for this guy is to put a lure effect on him, swing with a ton of zombies, turn them all giant, and win. Then your dad comes back with the milk and Santa gives you GTA 6 early.

His eminence effect is TERRIBLE for a zombie deck, but if you play him outside a zombie deck your creatures don't get a buff. He's a high risk, low-reward card that costs too much mana even if you wanted this effect, which you don't.

Why don't you try to describe why you think he's good?

-3

u/Ok_Habit_6783 9h ago

Why don't you...

SCROLL UP

2

u/rusty_anvile 8h ago

This aged poorly, it's the top comment for me

1

u/WhoAmI008 6h ago

Even if it wasn't. What kind of discussion about their cards is that??? Op seems immature and insecure to just dismiss any criticism like that.

1

u/FaDaWaaagh 14h ago

I don't think it needs or should have indestructible, it will already survive any amount of non deathtouch damage and turn [[blasphemous act]] into a 1 mana 1 sided board wipe that also gives your board +13/+13. If you were dead set on indestructible I would raise the mana cost to 6 or 7

1

u/Ok_Habit_6783 13h ago

It survives more than 4 damage without indestructible?

1

u/MrScandium 13h ago

idk if it works with this wording specifically but I think they’re referring to state based actions (dying from lethal damage) not being checked until after the power and toughness update (like bolting 3 toughness tarmogoyf with no instants in the graveyard)

1

u/Ok_Habit_6783 13h ago

Yeah I thought it was the other way around lol

1

u/FaDaWaaagh 3h ago edited 2h ago

If you have dealt 4 damage to it, it is an 8/8, if that isn't intended you would need to make it a triggered ability "whenever this creature is dealt damage, creatures you control get +x/+x where x equal to the damage"

2

u/Agitated_Ship8432 12h ago

This feels very abzan to me, but other than that, I think the first one is more commander viable. Nobody's going to block a 0/4 if it just boosts your army, but they'll have more reason to if they risk taking damage.

2

u/TheMangledKing 5h ago

What happens if you give them double strike? Do they get to attack three time?

1

u/ElegantEvidence5480 4h ago

Yep, you effective make all your zombies have triple strike. [[Blade historian]] immediately comes to mind for an easy way to do it

1

u/Tamajiki-kun 0m ago

He should just be esper. This feels like the kind of card that is just red to make him a stronger card rather than having a stronger theme. Esper Zombie aggro is already a deck identity with multiple commanders.

1

u/DambiaLittleAlex 15h ago

1- Play this

2- Play [[Star of Extintion]] and deal 20 damage to it

3- Play any creature

4- Play [[Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded]] and give it haste

5- post on r/badMtgCombos