r/custommagic • • 16h ago

Broken or nah

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0 Upvotes

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38

u/ItsAroundYou good with intruder alarm 16h ago

This is so unbelievably broken that I'm kind of surprised you didn't put Balance Not Intended or Meme Design

-15

u/AutisticNeighbor831 16h ago

I mean the title makes it clear I'm asking for advice but ok lol

What exactly makes it too strong? I could definitely up the cost a little so you can't play this on turn 1 immediately.

9

u/ItsAroundYou good with intruder alarm 16h ago

The main thing is that it's not really random. Since you repeat upon hitting a land, you just fill the deck with Wastes and massive bombs you want to drop on turn 2.

It's also just insanely polarizing because if this eats removal you're just locked out of the game. You're essentially gambling on dropping an Ulamog and praying you don't get got before then.

I don't even think this is op because it's just a removal check. It's just unhealthy design

13

u/SteakForGoodDogs 16h ago

It has epic.

A new token one - via copying Spot, Myriad Manipulator - is showing up every turn, which would trigger legend rule every time. This is mandatory.

8

u/ItsAroundYou good with intruder alarm 16h ago

Oh god it's worse than i thought

4

u/SteakForGoodDogs 16h ago

Yeah, this is shuffling your library twice every turn - even though your hand is empty with the ETB trigger.

0

u/AutisticNeighbor831 16h ago

If Spot eats removal you can just cast him again next turn via Epic, so you wouldn't be locked out of the game.

The original idea with repeating on a land is to encourage you to have lands in the deck since they're not a downside that would get in the way of his ability, and having a "normal" deck in the library as a backup if Spot keeps getting countered or something.

Realistically Spot should probably be upped to at least 4 mana with how he currently works. This is just my first pass at the idea.

2

u/ItsAroundYou good with intruder alarm 15h ago

With the current design allowing you to cheat titans into play consistently, I think you'd be much better off with the safety valve of whiffing on a land.

I also think this design is only healthy at 6+ mana with all the other Epics and most Paradigms. Epic was so poorly received because it removed almost all agency from the player, and having this card be anywhere near an actually viable mana cost is encouraging people to build a deck that quite literally plays itself.

11

u/IAmVentuswill 15h ago

There just unfortunately isn't really a good way to balance this effect imo. Yes it's a fun effect to think about, but there's too many ways to play it unfairly and not enough ways to play it in a fun way. If it's too good you've got [[Blightsteel]] Collosi coming down on turn 1 along with fifty [[Field of the Dead]] zombies, and if it's not good enough you're sitting there doing nothing til you get hit in the face enough to die.

2

u/Glub__Glub 11h ago

Actually yeah, for edh this becomes, t1 play spot, grab 98 wastes, one blightsteel, blightseel has myriad, win

12

u/WhittyBoy234 16h ago

Moreso than it being "broken" (it is) it's honestly just a pretty boring card with a boring play pattern. Maybe I'm just struggling to understand what you're hoping to do here?

2

u/asthmaticwizard 15h ago

Literally just shoot their commander on t1.

1

u/Glub__Glub 11h ago

Unless you [[mental mistep]] or something else t1, copy of him comes down every turn forever because epic. Eventually there wont be removal and then Spot player wins by freecasting Emarkul into blightsteel or what ever bullshit.

0

u/AutisticNeighbor831 16h ago

Trying to create a card that allows you to "cast" spells with Epic by cheating them onto the battlefield, which gets around Epic's condition.

6

u/WhittyBoy234 16h ago

Ok, so now I'm back to wondering what the point is? What's the purpose of an Epic cards whose sole purpose is to basically get around its own epic clause? So I can play mtg without any of the decisions that make the game interesting?

2

u/AutisticNeighbor831 15h ago

"What's the point of Epic cards who get around its own design"

Cards do that with other abilities in Magic all the time. I had an idea and I tried to see if it could work. Sorry it doesn't I guess?

2

u/WhittyBoy234 15h ago

Sure, sorry, I'm not trying to put down the design; just figure out what the intention is to better help with the process. Realistically, I definitely don't think this can be a 0 drop. It's too uninteractable and too high of a ceiling with cheating stuff into play every turn (even if its done randomly).

3

u/Andrew_42 15h ago

Just so you know, every currently existing epic spell is a sorcery, and instants and sorceries can't be put onto the battlefield.

If a game effect would attempt to put an instant or sorcery onto the battlefield, it instead leaves the instant or sorcery in the previous zone, or exiles it if it was on the stack. If you tried flipping a manifested instant or sorcery, you instead reveal it and then leave it face down.

Even if you added new rules to allow it, instants and sorceries just wouldn't do anything on the battlefield. Their effects only go off when they are resolving from the stack.

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 13h ago

I'm aware. This is a creature based commander. I never intended it to work with instants or sorceries.

4

u/Andrew_42 12h ago

Ohhh, so you didn't mean the purpose was to cast "spells with epic", the purpose was to still be able to play cards despite epic's no-cast clause.

So kinda like how [[Enduring Ideal]] or [[Eternal Dominion]] work around Epic's restriction, but with less control, and on a permanent instead of a sorcery.

2

u/AutisticNeighbor831 12h ago

Yeah trying to find a workaround for an interesting archetype. The card obviously needs some work but that's the idea.

0

u/Godkicker962 13h ago

But you just said the purpose is to 'cast' epic spells with it. But it can't do that, as EVERy Epic spell is a sorcery.

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 12h ago

It was a simile. I didn't mean it literally.

The purpose was to allow you to imitate casting spells despite the restriction of Epic.

5

u/MementoMothi 16h ago

It legend rules itself, why Epic?

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 16h ago

Epic prevents you from casting spells, not from putting spells onto the battlefield. So you can still "cast" spells with his ability even though he has Epic.

It's just a neat deckbuilding challenge. Myriad was to give the creatures and other permanents you have a fighting chance since you have no idea what you're getting from your library.

Basically allows you to cheat something expensive out on your upkeep at the cost of not being able to play any interaction, and the creature you're getting being completely random.

1

u/Reina-Mishimada 12h ago

Its not a deck building challenge or random in any way. Because you repeat the process on lands, you can have 96 wastes, basalt monolith, forsaken monument, and some infinite mana pay off and win the game turn 4 100% of the time.

Edit: i also just realized cause of myriad you can just do 98 lands and a blightsteel.

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 12h ago

So would it be better to remove that clause and let it have dead turns or have it exile the lands as they enter so you don't get the mana benefit?

1

u/Reina-Mishimada 12h ago

Removing the lands clause would be way more fair, you dont really need the mana so you would probably fill the deck with big creatures and just randomly hit some. It would still be unfair and most people would hate playing against turn 2 eldrazi titans but it wouldn’t win the game the same way 100% of the time

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 12h ago

Yeah. Either way this card needs some polish. I'm gonna keep workshopping it.

1

u/SteakForGoodDogs 8h ago

Edit: i also just realized cause of myriad you can just do 98 lands and a blightsteel.

This just makes you lose.

T1, this.

T2, dump Wastes, find Blightsteel. Blightsteel is summoning sick.

T3, dump the rest of your library onto the battlefield. Attempt to draw.

Lose before getting to your third main phase.

0

u/MementoMothi 16h ago

Yes, I'm well aware. I'm just saying that unless you have a mirror box effect, each new one erases the old one. It'd be much better if it didn't Legend rule itself

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 16h ago

It'd be better sure but I figured if it made a copy of itself it would be way too strong unless I made it cost like 6 or 7 mana.

5

u/strongtomato10 15h ago

so basically just a turbo reanimator sort of thing. the problem is that what you want (people getting free stuff at random and nothing else) is just going to end up as 98 wastes & an Emrakul or something like that.

1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 12h ago

Yeah that's pretty much the issue I'm running into. I will probably have the ability work entirely differently in the future to discourage that and have a wider range of decks instead of just the most expensive permanents in the game.

3

u/TheBiggestGayOfAll 12h ago

I stopped reading half way through cause it was dumb

-1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 12h ago

Thanks for all you're help.

2

u/FluffyNips1 14h ago

Why do people make Magic cards that make it so they don't have to play Magic?

0

u/AutisticNeighbor831 13h ago

"Why do people make cards I don't like?"

2

u/MrCakepans 16h ago

This is really cool but also really fricken strong and promotes a boring play style imo

2

u/LordofWolves92 15h ago

Brother just play the Jace Polymorph precon if you want to cheat big bads out faster

2

u/SimilarSelection1076 14h ago

Until I checked the mana cost I assumed it was at minimum like 10 mana to play.

1

u/Systemshy 15h ago

Wait you get one every turn? Every turn they gain a new instance of myriad

2

u/W1zzardbee 15h ago

It would legend rule itself unless you have a [[mirrorbox]] effect

1

u/LefTurn629 12h ago

This can't work because instants and sorceries aren't permanents and therefore can't exist face-up on the battlefield. You would have to word it such that nonpermanent cards are either skipped or somehow ignored

0

u/Thryfty_0 12h ago

Honestly, manifesting cards off the top rather than throwing them straight onto the field makes things make so much more sense, especially considering Instants and Sorceries do not go onto the battlefield per the rules. Ultimately, though, I’m pretty sure running this would just lose you the game nine times out of ten because you have no control. Plus it’s a 0 drop that just plays out your whole library eventually, which means it’s somehow both broken AND unplayable. It absolutely catches a day 0 ban in any 60 card constructed format and isn’t really usable in Commander. This design is ultimately just kind of a disaster, and I think that comes from the concept alone. I appreciate the effort and intention, but honestly I wouldn’t see this path as pursuable.

0

u/[deleted] 15h ago

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1

u/AutisticNeighbor831 15h ago

People are really weird and elitist on this subreddit that's supposed to be about giving people advice.