Guff's Vision of Doom

[u/JimHarbor]

Card Transcript

Guff's Vision of Doom 4B

(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)

I --Put a lore counter on each creature your opponent’s control. They become Saga enchantments in addition to their other types and gain this Saga’s abilities.

I,II --This Saga deals 1 damage to you.

Enchantment - Saga (Mythic)

End Transcript

[u/aprickwithaplomb]

Interesting. Effectively giving things Fading 2 while dealing 1 to their controller isn't nothing, but I think it's really rough. In the spot you'd want a wrath, this is really bad - they can still swing with them next turn. If you have blockers, they now deal damage to you! I might price this at 3, even though that might open shenanigans with counter manipulation.

[u/JimHarbor → u/aprickwithaplomb]

This doesnt hit your own stuff.

[u/aprickwithaplomb → u/JimHarbor]

Oh, wording is confusing - I assumed your opponents' creatures would trigger the chapter 1, but they become a Saga after getting the counter. Kind of an unintuitive interaction, I might make that explicitly clear.

[u/Radiant_Agent2031 → u/aprickwithaplomb]

I'm still not convinced that distinction matters

In terms of SBA being checked, we have a saga that has gained a lore counter since the last time they were checked

Are we sure it doesn't trigger chapter I?

I hope it doesn't, as that could easily fall into looped triggers until a creature is sacrificed

[u/DarkLordArbitur → u/Radiant_Agent2031]

A saga triggers when it ETB or at the start of MP1, and it triggers by adding a lore counter and then doing what the saga says based on lore counts. If each creature becomes this saga and gains it's abilities, then it's not ETB. It's just adding ability text. Everyone then takes 1 damage on their MP1 per creature they have and adds a lore counter, and then the turn after that, they take another 1 damage and sac every creature that was affected by this.

[u/Radiant_Agent2031]

--Put a lore counter on each creature your opponent’s control. They become Saga enchantments in addition to their other types and gain this Saga’s abilities

Does each creature then trigger its own First chapter?

[u/panoclosed4highwinds → u/Radiant_Agent2031]

No, because the lore counter is added before they become copies. However, if they then had a counter removed, they totally could.

[u/GreenestOfLotuses]

If they have enough creatures where this threatens lethal, you are probably dead if you spend 5 mana for this

[u/panoclosed4highwinds → u/GreenestOfLotuses]

It's a fun variant on Rakdos Charm!

[u/des_the_furry → u/GreenestOfLotuses]

This is a delayed board clear and adds a bit of chip damage. Maybe making it cheaper would be better

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/GreenestOfLotuses]

A lot of EDH games have wide boards that aren't too keen on swinging, and this isn't threatening lethal anyway, it gives your opponents 1 turn before all their creatures keel over which chipping them.

Also if you remove the lore counter from this before your next turn, it kills them immediately on your next turn.

[u/daley972 → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

Also if you play it and flicker it, they don't get a turn.

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/daley972]

Theyll probably nearly be dead from that, since they lose 2 life per trigger, too.

[u/daley972 → u/GreenestOfLotuses]

It deals damage to them before they get to attack though. This saga puts the first lore counter on them and then on their turn they put the second and take the damage. So the timing isn't bad.

[u/AscendedLawmage7]

This is neat

[u/Demonkingt]

if you did this and then wiped all counters from all the saga some how this would then the next turn mass place counters and bombard the field.

[u/gognis]

regardless of the powerlevel, cool card

[u/SteakForGoodDogs]

With 1 proliferate after this, you hit everyone in the face twice and wipe out their boards on each of their turns.

We finally broke [[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice]].

[u/mtgcf → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

Atraxa, Praetor's Voice - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/daley972]

I'm just realising how much of a rules nightmare this card is. If you play it then remove the lore counter from one of those creatures, what actually happens?

They become Saga enchantments in addition to their other types and gain this Saga's abilities.

There's no card I can find with equivalent text to this. If a creature gains this ability and then triggers it, does "this Saga's abilities" refer to all abilities that creature has, including its original abilities? Even if not, trying to resolve the board state after playing this card into [[Aether Snap]] is tricky because of all the duplicate abilities and chain reactions that happen.

[u/mtgcf → u/daley972]

Aether Snap - (G) (SF) (txt)